50: Are Cold Exposure, Saunas, and Fasting Dangerous? | Myths Debunked

In this episode:

Michael Kummer: Scientific studies now confirm that fasting and cold plunging are bad. And eat junk food, ultra-processed food, and stay away from meat and eggs and dairy, you know? Ultra-processed foods are actually not that bad, and Lucky Charms are actually really healthy, right? I mean, you fast and you suddenly have a 90 percent increased risk of dying, not getting sick!

DYING! You know, what's up with that? Listen to your body. Don't blindly listen to what you hear on social media from an influencer, from me for that, you know, for that reason, you know, do your own research, you know...

You're listening to the Primal Shift Podcast. I'm your host, Michael Kummer, and my goal is to help you achieve optimal health by bridging the gap between ancestral living and the demands of modern society.

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50: Are Cold Exposure, Saunas, and Fasting Dangerous? | Myths Debunked

If you've been on social media in the last couple of weeks and months, you may have heard that scientific studies now confirmed that fasting and cold plunging and many of the other hormetic stressors that we talked about on this podcast before are bad.

The American Heart Association came out with a claim saying that intermittent fasting can increase the risk of by 90%. That's a number, right? I mean You fast and you suddenly have a 90 percent increased risk of dying, not getting sick, dying. And similar news have emerged in the context of cold plunging and really hormetic stressors in general.

And that include obviously fasting and cold plunging and sauna bathing, exercise. You know, all of these are hormetic stressors that are supposed to make you stronger and healthier. But now suddenly they kill you? They are bad for you? What's up with that? And as so often the case, obviously there is a lot of nuance missing.

If you think about it, can fasting be bad for you? Yes, absolutely. In the most extreme scenario, if you don't eat. For extended periods at some point you will die. So from that perspective, yep, that's bad That doesn't mean skipping a meal or not eating for a day or two is generally bad for your health In fact, there are so many studies on all of those hormetic stressors that clearly demonstrate that Implementing those as part reasonably as part of a health and wellness regimen is good for you It's healthy improves your health and resilience makes you stronger Nobody would argue, at least not yet, maybe it'll come, who knows, that sauna bathing is bad for you, you know, it's been done for a very long time, and it's pretty clear what the benefits are of regular heat exposure, that's a stressor, much like cold exposure is, and fasting is, and exercise is, you know, So what's going on with that?

Well, if I was a conspiracy theorist and, and I'm not, I would argue that coming up with those headlines of saying all the, all the things that are, that are really good for you are suddenly bad and recommending to, you know, consume that ultra processed foods are actually not that bad and lucky charms are actually really healthy.

You might think that that narrative is very much distributed on purpose to keep people sick. Because if you follow all of that advice, if you. Don't fast, don't exercise, eat Lucky Charms a lot, don't sauna bathe, don't cold plunge, basically, you know, just stay comfortable all the time and eat junk food, ultra processed food and stay away from meat and eggs and dairy.

You'll be sick and you remain perpetually sick. I don't, I'm not saying that this is all done on purpose, but even though it very much sounds like this, but here is the thing. I mean, there are certainly Some nuance and some context. That's very important. And I think it's mostly important from the context of female health, right?

Because, and I've mentioned this in one of my my last newsletters, men typically operate on a 24 hour hormonal cycle. Testosterone, you know, levels go up and down, etc. Well, and that's mostly driven by the circadian rhythm. Now, women, obviously also follow this, or a body of women also follows this circadian rhythm.

But, the menstrual cycle is arguably even more influential. As far as the hormonal, the women's hormonal state, female hormonal state is concerned, you know, and, and cycle length can obviously vary, but on a 28 day cycle, for example, the days 15 to 28, leading up to the luteal phase, that's a phase of the cycle where women are well advised, you know, not to, stress out their bodies, maybe not to start an intermittent fasting regimen, maybe not workout and then jump into the cold plunge at a temperature that, you know, freaks them out and, and causes a significant sympathetic response.

There is nuance to that. There is the hormonal stages have to be taken into account. So, you know, and that's maybe some of the underlying reason why now. There is this opinion out there that cold plunging is terrible, especially for women. No, it's not terrible, but it might not be a good idea during certain phases of the menstrual cycle, whereas in the first 10 to 14 days of the menstrual cycle, you know, the stress resilience and the ability to respond to stressors, is significantly more robust in women than it is during the second half of the cycle.

So that's very much something you want to take into account, uh, without discounting the benefits that you can get from fasting and cold plunging. And so what I've, and we've made, you know, within the Kummer family here, we've made certain changes on how we approach hormetic stressors. You know, when I first started cold plunging, I did it every day because I wanted to get used to it.

I wanted to, I'm kind of, you know, I'm one person who's, you know, a little bit is good, more must be better kind of, you know, until I figure out, okay, what's the limit. And then I, I dial it back from there. I tend to be probably more extreme than, than others. And that's not always a good thing, but with cold plunging, I've noticed, okay, it is beneficial.

I have my stress response and resilience has significantly improved. I've gleaned so many health benefits from exposing myself to really, really cold water from, and generally speaking, by putting myself into situations that are really uncomfortable that I had to kind of learn and adapt and become comfortable.

But I've also realized that on days when I'm already super stressed out, when I'm already redlining that maybe jumping then in the cold plunge or going into the sauna for 45 minutes at 230 degrees Fahrenheit. might not be the best idea because my nervous system is already struggling. Whereas on days where I have relatively low stress levels, I can handle significantly more.

That means colder temperatures in the cold plunge, higher temperatures in the sauna, maybe a more intense workout or a prolonged fast. And so that's something you want to take into account. None of those things are bad. All of those things can have side effects if not done appropriately. And so again, let's maybe go through them one by one and figure out How you can approach those hormetic stressors to reap their benefits without negatively impacting your overall health and wellness.

And let's start with fasting. And again, you have, we have to differentiate, you know, if, if you're a female listener, it's going to be different than if you're a male listener, or maybe, you know, a child. The point is to always listen to your body and take some practice to figure out to how, how to read the signals your body is sending you.

Okay. But generally speaking, I would say that if you're already super stressed, if you are in the second half of your menstrual cycle, if you're a female, and if you're a man, again, if you're super stressed, if days you work out, you know, maybe with fasting, you know, take it easier or on the flip side on days that you fast, don't kill yourself in the gym.

Maybe don't do the sauna, you know, the highest heat. Maybe don't combine it with cold plunging or expose yourself to situations that cause you a lot of stress. So that's would be my recommendation. And, and you kind of feel there are certain days where fasting appears to be easy. And there are days when you struggle and you have to really figure out Okay, just because I'm struggling right now, is that a struggle I wanna push through to become mentally stronger?

Or could that potentially be negatively impacting my health overall? Because I'm red lighting and I just can't do the fast right now. And if that's the case, don't continue. Do it another day. With cold plunging, Temperature wise and duration wise, find a temperature that you find uncomfortable, but doable.

My wife, when we first started, when I first started cold plunging, you know, I had set my cold plunge to 39 degrees Fahrenheit, that was the lowest setting at the time. She jumped in, freaked out, got a panic attack really, because she thought I cannot get her out, you know, if she needed help. Even though, you know, I mean, I can deadlift over 500 pounds, but, so I can lift out my 100 pound wife there.

But she freaked out and never did it again for two years. And even though we said, you know what? Try it again, try it again. You know, you have to push through it and be mentally strong. She couldn't get over it. You know, that water was too cold for her. And then just recently we set up another cold plunge at 55 degrees and it was still a struggle for her, but she did it and now she likes it and she does it again.

It's, it's uncomfortable for her every time, especially to get into the shawl line. But she cannot do it, you know, and so again, even disregarding the phase of her menstrual cycle, that's a temperature that's more appropriate for her than 39 degrees. And that's important. And regardless if you're a man or a woman.

Leave your ego, check your ego, you know, somewhere, don't take it within the cold plunge, go as cold as you can, you know, it should be uncomfortable, but if you're freaking out, it might be too cold, you know, it's better to get into the habit, do it more often than to try it once and never again, you know, there are no benefits in doing that, you're all it, it, uh, it leaves you is with a negative Association, and you're not any mentally strong.

You might even feel weaker and defeated because you couldn't do it. You know, it's better to to end in a success. Yes, I could do it and then maybe decrease the temperature over time as you feel more comfortable being uncomfortable. Same goes with exercise. That's incredibly important. And again in particular for for female health if you're in a In a certain phase of your menstrual cycle, if you're stressed out, if you're, you know, pushing and ruining yourself in the gym every single day by working out three times, four times, five times, six, six times, seven times a week, because you want to lose weight or you don't like your body or whatever, it is not going to work.

If you remain in a high stress mode, you know, if your body remains in fight or flight mode, it hangs on, it retains energy. It's not going to burn the fat that you want to get rid of. It's going to hang on to it because it thinks we're under stress. We are under attack. Your brain does not know the difference between, you know, regular stressors that we are exposed to because of our modern lives and the threat from a saber toothed tiger.

When you're in fight or flight mode, your body tries to hang on to as much energy as possible so you can use it in the fight, so you can prolong that fight that really never comes, right? So you're not going to be able to lose weight or fat very easily. And so with exercise in particular, you know, exercising more and harder and more intensively, especially if you're a female, is likely going to be counterproductive.

Yes, there's nothing wrong with pushing yourself and with, you know, sweating and all of those things and doing it regularly. But you have to redlining every single day in the gym and then having all of the stressors around you still and then maybe adding on cold plunging and sauna bathing and, and fasting, you know, and all of those things are likely going to be counterproductive.

So listen to your body, you know, it's good to sweat to get your heart beat going. It's, it's also okay to push it occasionally, not, don't do that every single time. And especially not if you're in a luteal phase, you know, if you're a menstruating female, not a good idea. I'd rather you take it easy. Okay.

and listen to your body. Similar to sauna bathing, you know, there are, there are benefits of, of staying in the sauna for two hours because you get a massive spike in growth hormones. And that's great if you're a competing athlete and you want to prepare for a competition or recover quicker, you know, between intense workouts, because you have to push it every single day, maybe twice a day.

But if you're not a competing athlete, it's, it's great if you have extra gross hormones being released, but that's a stressor, you know, that's a, that's a, a stress response, your body triggers the release of those growth hormones as a, because of a stress response, you know, and so if you add in a whole lot of other stressors that can be counterproductive.

So take it easy on some days, don't push yourself with heat, with cold, with the avoidance of food or with fasting. With exercise, all of those things, if used strategically are absolutely beneficial to your health, but if used incorrectly, and if you just pile them on, especially if you're already stressed with, you know, parenting, job, financials, medical bills, what have you, it doesn't really matter, it's not going to help you, you know, and so you need to pick and choose, use those tools wisely.

Don't overdo them and most importantly, listen to your body. If you do, you'll know when it's time to avoid or to skip a meal, to not eat maybe for a day or maybe two days or maybe even longer, you know, that's all perfectly fine. And when to jump into the cold and stay in the sauna, but also when to get out and at what temperature and all of those things.

So very important, listen to your body and don't overdo them. Blindly listen to what you hear on social media or from an influencer, from me for that, you know, for that reason. Look, do your own research. If you're really done, click through some of those studies that are referenced, that fasting is, is bad and increases your chance of death by 90%.

If you really click through and look at those quote unquote studies, you'll realize that most of them are not really studies. And if they are, then, you know, they are done with very weak evidence. Um, no controls, no nothing. So they are meaningless at the end of the day. And so also think about, you know, how humans have been, what humans have been exposed for, for thousands, hundreds, thousands, million of years, depending on what you think humans first appeared on earth, there were times where we didn't have food, we had to fast when we were exposed to cold because we didn't have a climate in a controlled home or to heat for the same reason where we had to exercise, where we had to fight or run or.

Whatever it takes to build a shelter. All of those things are part of our history, part of human physiology. We thrive on doing those things. They make us stronger and more resilient, but we can also overdo them. And that's again, where listening to your body comes in. I hope you liked this episode. Hope I'll see you on here next time.