55: Overcoming Sugar Cravings | Expert Tips from Danielle Daem

55: Overcoming Sugar Cravings | Expert Tips from Danielle Daem

Danielle Daem: Wow. Okay. Well, first of all, thanks for having me on the show, Michael. I'm so excited for this and proving that sugar can be just as addictive and just as detrimental as hard drugs like cocaine and heroin and 

Michael Kummer: the constant blood sugar fluctuations. are a problem. 

Danielle Daem: There's a lot of misinformation about how, um, salt's the devil and it makes your blood pressure go up, right?

Michael Kummer: How do you fix that? How do you get over those cravings? 

Danielle Daem: Our society is not set up to actually support you to fully be your authentic self. Definitely. 

Michael Kummer: You're saying it might be more psychologically that we are craving certain foods than it's our gut bacteria or a an allergy deficit in the brain. What is a low, relatively low hanging fruit of first, you know, where can someone start, you know, to see meaningful improvements in a reasonable timeframe.

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Michael Kummer: All right. Hey, Danny. I'm so glad to have you on the show today. Today is gonna be about sugar.

Uh, among other things, psychedelics, we're going to talk about breath work, but, uh, maybe let's start with, uh, sugar because that's really how my health journey started. Um, I think eight ish, 10, maybe years ago, my wife and I decided to remove all products that had added sugars. And that was the beginning of our health journey that, you know, let down the rabbit hole to so many other things.

Um, but it made a significant, It had a significant impact on both of our health. And so, it's something I think mechanistically very easy to fix. Just, you know, don't eat sugar or products containing sugar. But I think it's a little bit more nuanced and complicated than that. Especially from a mental perspective, cravings and everything.

So, what's your take? What's the problem with sugar? And if someone is addicted to sugar, you know, what can someone do to fix that, you know, to get off that, uh, the addiction? 

Danielle Daem: Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Okay. Well, first of all, thanks for having me on the show, Michael. I'm so excited for this. Thanks Those questions that you just asked, we could spend the next two hours talking about them, so I'll try to keep it short.

Uh, what's wrong with sugar? I mean, so many things. And I know most of your audience may already be aware with, with how toxic, you know, sugar is. And the research and studying that has now been done proving that sugar can be just as addictive and just as detrimental as hard drugs like cocaine and heroin.

And the way that it hijacks our dopamine centers in our brain and, and really. all the cells in our body. So when we live a life of, and we can almost group the words sugar and processed food together because they often go hand in hand, right? We've also got processed seed oils in there, just as toxic as sugar.

Um, so processed food in general, but specifically the simple refined carbohydrates. that no longer represent food at all and are really just these quick hits of either glucose or fructose in our, in our blood system are absolutely wreaking havoc on almost every system in our body. So without getting into all of that, because again, it could be an hours long conversation.

is really understanding that this overdosing of sugar that most of us have been on, I know for myself, since childhood, sugar was in everything, I love bread and pasta, and, you know, I'm Canadian, I love maple syrup, right, like all the things, all the candy, and that, Um, constant bombardment of overconsumption of glucose and fructose over time dramatically impacts, obviously, your insulin levels, your pancreas's ability to even produce or use insulin, and this is where we are seeing the rise of metabolic disorders and blood sugar dysregulation, hypoglycemia, um, All sorts of, you know, we know that sugar feeds cancer now.

I mean, there's so many different links to the chronic diseases that people are struggling with, the brain fog, the higher rates of anxiety and depression, the, just the list goes on and on when we look at what processed food and in particular, what this sugar is actually doing to our system. So that's the quick notes of sort of what's, what's wrong with sugar.

Michael Kummer: Right. Now I would argue that not all whole foods that contain carbohydrates, which especially those that convert into glucose, right? I mean, not all carbs can be used for energy like fiber, but those that convert starches or, you know, plain old sugar, fructose in fruits, right? For example, or in, in honey, you know, How are those sugars different if, if they are, then let's say, you know, table sugar you purchase or the sugar that's added to processed foods or baked goods for that matter.

I think that's a very good example because I'd like to. Maybe briefly talk about, you know, the surface area of, of foods like flour and how that is different to maybe a whole grain, right? Not saying that whole grains are a great food, uh, in my opinion, but there is a difference between the glycemic index of having that, you know, that product ground down into flour and then consuming it versus.

Eating the whole kernel, let's say, of a plant. 

Danielle Daem: Yeah, for sure. So this is like that processing conversation, right? So when we're eating things in their sort of refined form, so white flour, white sugar, table sugar, even honey, um, these are released into your bloodstream and into your system almost immediately.

Even sometimes just smelling it or looking at it, you're going to get an insulin flush into your bloodstream and your body's going to go crazy, like, here comes the sugar. When we're eating things like a fruit, or like you said, a whole grain. Right. These sugars, carbohydrates are actually packaged as nature intended with some fiber, with a ton of other vitamins and minerals, right?

There's other components to it that actually support the slower release of this glucose or fructose into your blood. So we think of something really coming in hot and heavy, like a speeding train, right? Our body doesn't have a lot of time or ability to, like, make sense of it, to deal with it, to process it, versus something that's coming in slower, right?

The difference between drinking a cup of apple juice versus actually eating an apple. And when we eat foods that contain natural carbohydrates in their whole form, we will naturally be eating less of them. So if you think of like drinking a cup of apple juice, I don't actually know the stat off the top of my head, but maybe that's something like four or five apples in, in one apple juice.

You're not going to sit down and eat five apples. You may be one. Maybe two if you're really hungry and then you're done because the fiber has filled up your stomach. Right? So there's, there's a lot of, um, pieces there to consider when we're eating things so refined. Not only are we missing any actual nutrients, right?

We're not getting the nutrients. We, we now live in a, you know, an overfed, under nutrient, uh, deficient, you know, world because we're not getting things in their whole form. So that is definitely something to consider and I know with a lot of the, the people that I work with, it can be a slippery slope to still eating too many carbs, right?

I'm eating fruit, so I'm okay. And I do know like for fruit, for example, there are different foods that, um, are, are definitely going to spike your blood sugar and drive cravings a lot quicker. Every body is different. You know, I have some clients who can eat a banana and immediately feel like eating a box of cookies.

They need more sugar, like more, more, more. I have some who eat a banana and they're totally fine. And they can go about their day and not have cravings after that. So it really is. dependent on your unique makeup, your body, obviously where your blood sugar is at and what you can handle. 

Michael Kummer: Right. I think that the bottom line is, and that's at least the impression or the experience that I've had, the constant blood sugar fluctuations are a problem.

If you have one spike a day for whatever reason, and you're metabolically healthy, you know, and your insulin takes care of it, and it's energy that you might even, you know, need or use at that particular moment, like if you eat it and then you go for a brisk walk, you know, probably less of a problem than if you have that constant, you know, up and down, like snacking.

And, and one of the issues really is with carbohydrates, you know, and that's why I typically do not eat any carbohydrates in the first half of the day. Because I noticed that once my blood sugar level goes up and then they come down, I feel the impact. Not that I'm useless, like, you know, I'm not metabolically dysfunctional, but I can certainly feel the impact.

I'd rather have stable blood sugar levels for most of my day and then in the afternoon with dinner, I add in whatever carbohydrates, you know, I might need to fuel my workout or, you know, whatever the case might be. Um, but that's definitely, you know, if I have carbs all the time and I think at some point there was actually a recommendation that just eat every two hours to keep somewhat stable blood sugar.

Yeah, it was a recommendation. Ridiculous. 

Danielle Daem: Yeah, fully ridiculous. And The other thing I'll add that, you know, I'm sure you've talked about on your show, because I know you've just had Sean Baker on, you've talked about keto, you've done some of this conversation, is around, you know, the goal to become metabolically flexible.

So one of the problems when we're constantly eating carbs throughout our day, even if it's complex carbs, even if it's whole fruit and whole grains, We're getting a lot of carbs, which our body is always going to prioritize the use of that glucose as energy, so it never actually has a need to learn how to burn ketones or burn fat, right?

And actually, as human beings, what we're learning is we actually want to be able to burn both sources of fuel, and this is where many people who start, into diets like low carb or keto or carnivore diets will feel really horrible for a while because their body is learning how to use a brand new fuel source that we as humans have the innate knowing of doing right when we're going through fasting or we have times where there's not enough food right or hunter gatherer style so Learning how to actually be able to 

Michael Kummer: learn ketosis, right?

I mean, we literally, you know, come to this world in ketosis, burning fat because of our energy demands, you know, at that time where we burn just through all the glucose in the breast milk or the carbs in the breast milk, you know, and then still need energy or still need fat to burn to satisfy our fuel needs at that time, you know?

Danielle Daem: Yeah, absolutely. I love that. I love that reminder. You know, we, we're meant to be able to do both. So there's times where our body may be burning the, the sugar that we ate, you know, the rice we ate with, with our chicken for lunch or whatever. And then there's times where if we're fasting or we aren't having any carbs, our body is burning the fat from the eggs we had for breakfast or from the bacon that we had.

Right. So, um, that is in my opinion, that stable energy that you were talking about, right. Wanting to have that stable energy all day. is really a dance of learning how to keep that blood sugar level within, uh, you know, within this, this sort of line, right, so that we're not having the huge spikes and the huge lows.

And that's where, you know, most, most humans are, you know, a bit, a bit out of whack with the blood sugar, right? And there's some work to do there to, to get back on track. 

Michael Kummer: Right. Um, how is the gut related to, I know that specifically with carbs, you know, cravings can be a bitch. Right? And it can be incredibly difficult.

Yeah. Because I, I ultimately, I'm of the opinion that the brain always wins, you know, regardless of how strong you think you are, they are, you know, the chemicals that your brains can release to get what it wants. And it might be that glucose, because it doesn't know how to use ketones or fatty acids, right?

If there is a fuel demand that cannot be met, The brain does whatever it can to make you eat that donut, right? If that's a source of, of fuel available to you in front of you. And, and I also believe that the gut plays a major role in how those cravings, um, originate, right? By, because the bacteria in your gut as well, they need to feed stu you know, and they, Depending on what you normally eat, you know, that makes up kind of your, or that reflects in your composition of your gut microbiome.

And if there are carb loving bacteria in your gut, and they are not getting it, they will let you know, right? How do you fix that? How do you get over those cravings? Especially initially, because I think at some point You'll get used to it, you'll get over it, but the beginning can be tough. How do you do that?

Danielle Daem: Yeah, for sure. Uh, love that question, cause there's, there's so much here to unpack. What you're speaking to is very much the, like the physical cravings. Yeah. Which is a part of it, and a big part that most of us recognize. in a big way. Um, so I'll touch on that, but what I really believe and what I've seen in my practice working mostly with women, but it doesn't really make a difference, is when we look at something like processed food or any addictive substance, maybe Instagram, it may be porn, it may be alcohol, right?

It's actually more of an energetic, emotional craving. So there's actually deeper reasons that we are craving something to make us feel better or escape an uncomfortable feeling. So that's, that's my passion, and we can talk about that, but the physical piece definitely You're 

Michael Kummer: saying it might be more psychologically that we are craving certain foods than it's our gut bacteria or an energy deficit in the brain.

Danielle Daem: I, I, I believe so. That is my belief. That is absolutely a part of it. Absolutely, the physical component of what sugar does to our body and what carbs do to our body, like you mentioned, changing our gut microbiome, now the species of microbiome that live in our gut is like adapted to processed food and is craving for more sugar, right?

We have candida overgrowth, we have all sorts of yeasts and fungus that have just loved this processed food movement that has taken place over the last couple decades and is no doubt really contributing to like physical cravings are no joke, right? Especially in the beginning. Um, of starting, starting to taper off.

You'll notice when those are coming forward and, you know, the best things that I can say there to, to helping support that is making sure that you are getting the, like, nutritious food. You know, a lot of my clients will say, go off, carbs and then not even replace it with healthy fats. So now your body has no fuel source and it's like, what am I going to do?

And it just makes things harder. So making sure that you're getting good, healthy fats, if you are tapering off the carbs, uh, depending on yourself, your personality, uh, maybe you're a cold turkey kind of person. Maybe you're more of like a gentle type of person. I really recommend honoring that, uh, with the cravings and then making sure that you have.

You know, healthy things to reach for. Oftentimes, it, it will subside if you, you know, drink some water, right? Or have a healthy snack, right? Maybe having a hard boiled egg or having, you know, some avocado or something to give your body some fuel if it's craving for it. And then being patient. I know this is the hardest part, you know, those cravings on the physical front tend to dissipate within a week or two.

Um, if you're detoxing, everybody's different. What 

Michael Kummer: about salt? What's your take on salt? Because I love, I've noticed that Sometimes I crave and what it, what I'm really deficient in is sodium, especially on a low carb, you know, fasting kind of day. And then I drink a glass of, you know, just salt or, you know, Element or what have you, whatever your electrolytes, you know, of choice is, and I'm fine, you know, have you seen this as well?

Danielle Daem: Absolutely. Yeah, and I've experienced that myself too, you know, getting the headache, you know, into a bit of a fast. Oh, what's going on? And you just need a little bit of salt or I love element as well. Um, yeah, salt is definitely an important piece of our health. I'm not an expert in salt, but I do know that, Uh, like most things in our food industry, we've been feared away from it, right?

There's a lot of misinformation about how, um, salt's the devil and it makes your blood pressure go up, right? Um, just like we were taught fat was bad, you know, all of these things that we've been feared away from, uh, natural, uh, elements. Our body needs sodium. We actually need a balance between sodium and potassium in order to actually get hydration into our cells.

So if we're not having that and, you know, for anybody on a processed food diet, you're probably way too high in potassium levels. You're not, that, that pump, that system is not working effectively and you're not actually hydrating your cells. So, contrary to popular belief, you know, a lot of people believe the more salt you drink, the more dehydrated you become, but there is a bit of a balance and a dance there with actually needing salt to hydrate your cells.

So, it's definitely an important thing and I think as you step away from processed food, There is no salt. So adding salt into your food is going to be an important part, right? Most people are getting high doses of sodium through all the processed crap that they're eating. They've taken big pizzas, the sauces, the stuff that they're eating.

Um, that when you get into the whole foods and you're eating clean, you need to add salt back in so that you're actually getting those, those needs met. 

Michael Kummer: But you know what? I know you said you're not an expert on salt, but I, I ask this question every time because I still haven't gotten a satisfactory answer.

They're hoping that, uh, I hope that I'm going to have, uh, Rob Wolf on the show, uh, in the next couple of weeks and can ask him the question because he is the guy behind Element, right? Yeah. 

Danielle Daem: Yeah. Yeah. And. 

Michael Kummer: And so my question always is, you know, I get the idea of, you know, eating whole foods, there is barely any sodium in there, so you need to, you know, use the salt shaker to make up for that.

What did our ancestors do without having a salt shaker, right? And the two closest explanations or the best, the best hypothesis I have is A, they were probably consuming a lot of blood, which is rich in sodium, right? Animal blood. And the second is, their water, you know, natural spring water has significantly more minerals in general than the tap water or the filtered water we are getting, you know, at a store or have in our home.

And so, those two are kind of, kind of make sense, but, you know, for me, I seem to be doing best with, you know, You know, at least four grams of sodium. That's eight grams of table salt, you know, more or less. That's a significant amount of salt, you know, where did our ancestors get that amount of salt from?

You know? 

Danielle Daem: Yeah. That's such a great question. I want to know that too now. I'm curious. But you know, my, my gut would also be curious about, uh, you know, obviously the quality of food back then. Right? And if we're thinking of our ancestors, I mean, depending on where that was, like my ancestors were fishers, right?

They ate a ton of fish, right? There's gonna be a lot of salt and sodium in that, right? There's gonna be just a lot more nutrient density in all of the foods because this was maybe thinking back to before our soils were so depleted and sprayed with so much stuff and there was more just richness in all the elements, you know, and whether they were eating, you know, foraging leaves from the earth or eating bison, right?

Um, and then also bones, right? Like thinking of the liver, the heart, um, the bones, like bone broth. right? I mean, these are areas that we got so many nutrients back in the day when a whole animal was used, right? The whole plant was used to actually make our food. So those are my curiosities, my thoughts.

Again, I'm not an expert and I don't know, but I love that question. Um, you know, obviously our needs have also changed, right? Our ancestors didn't have the same toxic load that we do now on our planet, right? There's, there was maybe less of a need for sodium back then, you know, on an actual biological level.

Michael Kummer: Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. Um, let's switch back to, to cravings and the emotional aspect of that. Yes. Um, because that's, I would guess, the much more complex issue, right? Waiting for two weeks until the cravings have, the physical cravings have subsided. Easy, you know, more or less, but the stuff in your head, which might go back to, you know, trauma, maybe even generational trauma, who knows, you know, um, that's a whole, whole different ballgame.

What can we do? 

Danielle Daem: Yeah. Help. What do we do? Yeah. So again, this is a massive topic I'm very passionate about and really starting to dive deeper into in my practice and the work that I do with my clients. I really early on in my practice, about eight years ago, noticed, you know, my clients would get off of Processed food, they were eating clean, they were off of sugar, they felt amazing.

Maybe a month, two months, three months later, and without fail, every time, at some point, they would fall back into old patterns. They would fall right back into, no matter how great they felt, how balanced their gut bacteria was, how clean their body was, there was always a pull back into the binging and the coping and numbing out that was going on with food.

And in, um, yeah, my work over the last few years, I've become really fascinated with the works of, of people like Gabor Maté and understanding the root of addiction, whether it's with drugs or with, something so addictive like sugar, alcohol, you name it, the root of our addiction is actually trauma. And it's actually our inability to feel safe being in our body.

And this is, this is a big one where we get into understanding the energetic emotional component that makes up our overall health as a human. And how when we store, Lifetime worth of emotions because we weren't allowed to express them. And I know for men and women, we got very different messaging, right?

Like men are allowed to express anger. Women are not, but women are allowed to cry and men are not allowed to cry. Right. So there's so much messaging that stifles our willingness and our actual. honoring of the fullness of being a human. And for most of us from childhood, we didn't receive the things that we needed, whether that was attunement, attachment needs, our ability to actually be our authentic selves.

Unconditional love, emotional validation, these are all things that have really weighed in on shaping and shifting our nervous system in a way that we no longer feel like we know how to really be with ourselves and we really don't know how to relax and feel safe in our bodies. So similar to our blood sugar, our nervous systems are all out of whack and all dysregulated as well because of the world that we live in.

It's not your parents fault. This is, as you said too, sometimes absolutely generational trauma that has been handed down. Um, you know, the energetic imprints that are carried through that now have us in this space in general, of not knowing how to feel our emotions, not knowing what we need, not feeling safe to speak our voice, you know, there's a lot of sort of closing in and dysregulation in our nervous system that then causes us to find a coping mechanism to survive.

So at a young age, we developed whatever mechanism we needed to do, whether it was people pleasing, or binging on food to get the love and attention from our caregivers that we needed to feel part of the tribe, to feel this sense of safety that we didn't necessarily have. So here we are now as like fully functioning adults, hopefully, right?

And we're being tempted by all of these different ways that we can escape ourselves. So we don't have to actually be with our pain. We don't actually have to be with our emotions. We don't have to be with the discomfort of feeling angry at that person who yelled at us yesterday, right? We can just totally ignore it all by having some ice cream, watching some Netflix, scrolling on Instagram, and having a beer, right?

So This perfect storm of, like, escape ism is really stored deeply in, like, in the energetics of our nervous system, which is where I'm so passionate about doing breathwork, you know, these modalities that I'm getting into in helping my clients heal, psychedelic therapy, breathwork, I mean, there's so many ways that we can actually get in and shift these patterns at a body level.

So the somatic piece of understanding that our body is actually informing our brain. So this is, I know you've talked, you've mentioned a little bit about mind stuff, and in what I'm learning, and at least the areas that I'm really fascinated about, is understanding that actually what's going on in our brain, First started in our body.

So that belief or that thought or that, uh, pattern that's running around in your brain has actually stemmed from a felt sense of something in your body that then gets turned into a thought in your brain. So if a child has this experience of, you know, watching somebody get hit by a car, right, or having some sort of other scary experience, that's going to be a felt sense of fear or panic or like, I'm not safe here.

And then the belief comes online, I'm not safe, um, you know, when I speak my truth, people get hurt, right, or whatever the belief pattern is that, that kind of gets witnessed. 

Michael Kummer: Yeah, yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense, and you know, my, my sister in law is very much into all of that, and she constantly, you know, recommends books for me to read, and in the beginning, like, yeah, yeah, whatever, you know, and then I, I actually, you know, started picking up some of those books, and, uh, one of us, uh, I think, what was it, becoming superhuman or supernatural?

One of those two. 

Danielle Daem: Yeah. 

Michael Kummer: And then the other one, it didn't start with you. Uh, you've probably read that too. Uh. 

Danielle Daem: No, I haven't yet, but I've heard of it. Yeah. 

Michael Kummer: And I'm like, wow, this is really a whole new area that, you know, we have not explored at all yet, but it's, it explains so much, you know, and, and I see it.

Not every day, but very frequently, you know, people trying to do the right thing and they're doing the right thing, they eat right, they exercise, they sauna bathe, they cold plunge, you know, they do all of the things right, but something is still there that, you know, that doesn't allow them to move the needle in a significant way, you know, and, and, and funny enough though, you know, as part of, um, my experience, and I never did this consciously or with a plan, um, or knew even what I was doing.

But I think my, my head game has changed a lot over the years. It was shaped by probably my, my, my track coach back in the days and my parents, obviously, and then, you know, even, you know, ex girlfriends, you know, where I'm reflecting like, okay, the reason why it's ex is because, you know, the way I, the way I behaved and why did I behave in a certain way?

Well, you know, that goes back to whatever might've happened, you know, 10 years ago, 15 years ago. And so. And so by, by improving my, my mental game, so to say, I think it has helped me dramatically to improve my physical game, you know, and even though, as you said, you know, my, what was in my head was more coming from my body, but I wasn't aware of that, you know, kind of, and, and so that was, that's really one realization that I think all of us need to work on our, on our mental game.

to fix some of the issues that, you know, we've endured, you know, from a, I guess, physical perspective, emotional perspective. But that's incredibly challenging because there is a lot of information. You, if someone thinks eating right is difficult because I don't know where to start, I think doing the, the, the whole mental game is even more difficult because where do you start, you know, I mean, except, you know, coming to you maybe because you already have a lot of experience in a, in a field, but how does someone.

You know, if someone says, you know what, I really want to get better and, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm eating already good, I'm exercising, I'm doing a lot of things right, but I'm still not, you know, I still have those cravings, I'm still not losing the weight I want, I still, you know, I'm stressed out all the time, I'm still, I don't sleep well, what is a low, relatively low hanging fruit of first, you know, where can someone start, you know, to see meaningful improvements in a reasonable timeframe?

Danielle Daem: Yeah, yeah, uh, such a good question. And yes, this can be tricky, right? It's almost, and this is, to be honest, this is why I've shifted my practice away from, you know, even talking a lot about the nutritional pieces or doing the detox with sugar, because that is the easy part. I know people hate to hear that, right?

That is the easy part. It's very clear. It's black and white. Like, eat this, don't eat that. Like, here's the plan, right? It's very, uh, there, there's a, there's a roadmap for it. And when it comes to this, what I call the inner work and the mindset stuff, there's no roadmap and that's frustrating, right? And we just want, tell me the plan.

So. Yeah, in terms of like where to get started slowly, you know, my biggest advice would be to really start doing what you can to actually reconnect with your body. We have spent our whole lives living in our head, right? And step one is actually building a relationship again with what's going on below the neck.

So, you know, many people are different areas with this in, in their journey. But I know I have many of my clients who don't even know how to feel. They don't even feel sensations in their body, right? Unless it's like pain screaming at them, right? So just starting by connecting there. And the best way to do that is to get into stillness and silence.

And this is the hardest piece for most people to do in this busy world where we want to be doing all the things and there's so much grabbing for our attention, but actually coming back into the simplicity of your life, coming back into the present moment, finding ways, this is where things like meditation have been so powerful, breath work, right, these daily practices, being out, you know, grounding in nature, being in the sauna, you know, that was always a great place that I love doing this work and just being with yourself, closing your eyes, maybe even placing your hands on your body and inviting in a connection with what's going on in my body.

Breath is a really great way to do this. When you really connect to your breath, it helps you connect to your body and the present moment. So that would be, you know, a really important place to, to start with tuning into what's actually going on in your heart, right? What's actually going on in your physical body.

And to get support with this, I highly recommend somatic therapy. So this is like something that is blowing up. So, somatic is, just means of the body. It's actually a Greek word, soma, meaning of the body, and it's this, uh, it's new but not new, uh, sort of line of therapy, counseling, uh, psychiatry that is focused all, more on the body than on the brain.

So helping you, again, using various modalities, this is stuff that I love to do with my clients, different processes to actually access, uh, the wounds that are stored in our body. the sensations in our body and understanding that what is showing up in our body is actually a message to tell us something, right?

Like, if your shoulder is killing you, Somatically, we can journey into that pain and that pain will have a message for you. Like, oh, okay, it's time to like take a break and stop lifting such heavy weights. Or, oh my gosh, I've been doing too much. I've been carrying everything for my family for years, and it's just weighing me down.

Right? There could be some, Um, really powerful messages. This is more 

Michael Kummer: emotional than, than carrying literal weights. 

Danielle Daem: Definitely. Yeah. It could be both. It could be both, right? It could be, Oh my gosh, um, I've, I'm lifting too heavy at the gym, right? And I need to take it down, you know, a couple pounds. So we don't know what the body's going to say, but it is ultimately rebuilding that connection with the, the communication with your body and learning how to actually honor the wisdom and the The amazing brilliance that our body has, which we've become so disconnected from because in a patriarchal society, we're taught that the only kind of knowledge exists in our brain.

That the feminine knowledge that we all carry in our intuition, in our body, in the sensations, the tingles, the energy, the dreams that we have, like, all of that is woo woo, that's poo poo, that doesn't, uh, it doesn't have any validity because you can't rationalize it. So it's kind of dropping a, you know, shifting sort of our whole society on, on edge and really.

Coming back into the wisdom and learning to listen to the communication and the messages that are coming through our body and then Obviously making changes in our life based off of that. 

Michael Kummer: Right. Yeah, I really like you gave a couple of examples before like grounding You know, I really I really wonder how many people have felt like actively felt how it feels to have grass under your feet 

Danielle Daem: Right, you 

Michael Kummer: know, which is a 

Danielle Daem: somatic experience 

Michael Kummer: Yeah, so 

Danielle Daem: sensation You Right, bringing in even your sight, smell, like how often are you actually present with the texture, the taste, the smell of your food, right?

This is like next level mindful eating as well, it's like really being present. With every aspect of what you're engaged in, whether it's your feet in the grass, or your back on the yoga mat, right, or your seat in the chair, you know, these are sort of ways that we can really start to build that connection with the sensations of our body.

Michael Kummer: Right. And, and being present. is incredibly difficult. You know, even when you're trying, even when you're meditating, you know, it's very easy to drift, you know, and to go somewhere with your mind. Like, nope, I want to be right here. Yeah. Um, but yeah, that's why I love breathwork. What's your take on, have you used cold plunging as well to kind of, because that's obviously an extreme, case of, you know, feeling something because you're feeling cold.

Danielle Daem: Yes, I love cold plunging. Uh, love it. For so many, we all, we have a wood burning sauna and a cold plunge here and living in Canada, I just get to go in the river near my house and it is absolutely freezing. Um, so, yeah. Yeah, it's, there's so many benefits to cold plunging, of course, but even specifically when we look at regulating and, and retraining our nervous system, cold plunging is really powerful because we get to learn and teach our nervous system that even under stress, you know, getting in cold is definitely a stress in the body.

We can come back to our breath and we can come back into training our nervous system to be relaxed in a stressful situation. Yeah. And that's a powerful, like, a powerful reconnection because we, as most human beings, are running around chronically stressed, right? And chronically, you know, just absolutely dysregulated when it comes to our nervous system, wondering why we can't relax, right?

And then we're using food to relax or alcohol to relax, right? And yeah, cold plunging is such a powerful way to, um, to elicit that, as well as, of course, the benefits of blood sugar regulation and metabolism and all the amazing benefits that, that come with cold plunging. And the connection to nature. I mean, for me, it's also a bit of a spiritual practice, like just being with the water and especially when I get to go out in the river or the ocean here and, um, just really being connected in a different way.

Michael Kummer: Yeah, yeah, I've noticed that when I started co plunging, I'm like, okay, this is like one of the worst experiences, the most, uh, discomforts that I've ever experienced. And if I can get through this by simply breathing, I can get through a lot of other things that are sure on my way, you know, and I already know how to do it, you know, and that's yeah, I 

Danielle Daem: think 

Michael Kummer: it 

Danielle Daem: helps train us right to retrain us like we've gotten soft.

Let's just call it what it is. We've gotten super soft in our culture as human beings. We don't hunt and gather anymore. We don't have to endure cold. We have heating in our houses, right? So, I, I, you know, this is such a, a powerful tool to, like you just said, I, I've loved the mental benefits of it, being like, I'm going to do this really hard thing.

And I'm gonna, like, be calm and level through it, and then I'm gonna feel amazing after. I always feel amazing after, right? You just did this hard thing, and proving to yourself that you can do hard things. And if we tie that back even with food, right, often my clients, you know, think that giving up sugar or not eating processed food is, like, the most impossible thing in the world.

It's the hardest thing ever to do. It's like, well, you might as well tell me to climb Mount Everest, right? Right. Right. But when we can practice these other areas where we maybe do hard things in our life, like cold plunging or, uh, you know, going on a really difficult hike or overcoming, I think it, it trains those parts of our brain that, that, you know, makes this possible for us and reminds us how powerful we are and how capable we are of doing anything.

Michael Kummer: Absolutely. Um, in terms of, you know, we talked about, you know, the physical cravings, the emotional, you know, mental side of it. How does menstruation play into all of this? Is all of this also just emotional baggage or is there actually something going on during certain phases of the menstrual cycle that plays where it makes sense to consume certain foods, maybe more, maybe more carbohydrates.

Is there a reason for that? Yeah. And should you give in to that or should you resist? 

Danielle Daem: Yeah, yeah, that's a great question. You're going to find, you know, sort of varying opinions or thoughts on this. Again, this is not something that I have studied, but I have learned, um, from various people and in my own body.

Um, and, and working with women specifically over the last years, really noticing that, yes, physically there are things going on that are going to contribute to more sugar cravings. Traditionally, like right before, you know, the end of your cycle, right before you bleed, you're going to, this is PMS week, right, where women notice like their hormones are changing, they're feeling cranky.

They're craving chocolate, right? There's a lot of cravings happening here for sugar and magnesium. Um, and these are definitely things that, that I believe our body needs a bit more of during that, that week or that time of the month. And we can support that by actually You know, allowing more carbohydrates in our diet, right?

If you are on a keto diet or even a carnivore diet, like, this is the time for a woman who is still menstruating to, uh, to allow some carbohydrates. So maybe that's allowing some yams, right? Maybe grains, if you do that, or having some fruit, like, allowing yourself to eat. Nature's carbs, right? Healthier, whole, real foods and supporting your body in that, that, that higher need for glucose or, or those, those foods.

Now, again, every body is different, right? There's also a lot of spiritual aspects that come in when we look at a woman's cycle and, you know, what's happening every, every, um, stage, all four stages of, of the cycle. There's a lot going on, you know, and I think, um, you know, I think that window of time where women are so famously complaining about PMS, right, they're feeling moodier, they're cranky, I believe a lot of that is also energetic in the way that our society does not support women in slowing down.

It doesn't support anyone in slowing down, but 28 day cycle, roughly. We're not meant to go, go, go, go, go, all month. Like, men can. They have a different hormonal makeup and are more able to go, go, go. I also don't think men should go, go, go all the time. I think men need to allow themselves to rest. But women are not supported in that.

We're not supported in that in the way of, like, having days off work, right? Or having someone take over responsibilities for that week. So, traditionally, that is the time when women are hibernating. We're going inward, we're slowly making our way to the red tent, you know, back in the day or the cave where we would hang out with women and bleed together.

So there's this very, like, um, nesting phase that happens at that time of our cycle where we're preparing to possibly, um, conceive a child, right? 

Michael Kummer: Right. 

Danielle Daem: Um, later on in our cycle. So, or maybe we have just conceived a child, right? That is kind of right after the ovulation phase. So there's that real, like, um, Um, drive to do less, to socialize less, to relax, to just lay on the couch, to be looked after, and 99 percent of women don't get to honor that, right?

Or they don't choose to honor that. Our society isn't set up like that, our households aren't set up like that, we're expected to continue, you know, checking the things off our to do lists and go, go, go, and not honoring the natural rhythms of resting. So I believe that's a big part of where a lot of that comes from is we're working energetically rhythms and what our body actually needs that week, right, or those couple weeks.

We're pushing against it and then we're more exhausted than ever. We're going to be craving more sugar than ever. We're going to be moody. Because we're not getting what we need, you know, there's a lot sort of at play there that I've, I've definitely noticed in my life. When I'm not resting that week, I'm cranky.

And when I am resting, I feel great. 

Michael Kummer: Huh, interesting. I have to actually share that with my wife then, because, you know, she, we both work from home, you know, we homeschool, so we have a lot more leeway, I guess, than the average. American, I want to say, was to go to the office, you know, so I think we, we, we're going to try and implement some of that, which I guess means that more work for me during that week.

Maybe. We'll have to discuss that. 

Danielle Daem: Maybe. Yeah. Or more planning for, like, stocking the freezer full of meal the week before so nobody has to cook, right? And it's called, you can, you can look up, look into it more, pass on to your wife, like cycle syncing is one of the terms that's used to kind of planning your business, your life around.

Your cycle, I'm, I'm working on doing that as well. When I do big workshops or I'm wanting to be really, uh, out there at events, I try to plan that in my cycle for a time when I'm ovulating, when I'm going to be more extroverted, I'm going to be more out there and planning my rest time around, uh, or the times when I'm not taking clients or doing many calls, right, around that time.

It's difficult, even when you run your own business, it's really difficult. Um, But it, it does make a massive difference. We can kind of support our bodies and have men that are in the world, in our lives, I know you have many listeners who are men, to also step up and understand this and support the women in your life.

Yeah. Right? That's massive. Instead of guilting her for not carrying her weight this week, right? Or doing all the things she's used to doing. Like, what if you actually, you know, gave her a foot massage and like delivered her dinner and found, or went out for dinner that week? Like, you know, find a way to actually have that communication.

So. You can both feel supported. 

Michael Kummer: Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. I mean, actually, when my wife started, like, with, like, his whiteboard, you know, where the kids typically look at what's going on for the month, and, you know, she marks when her, you know, certain phases of her cycle, so we're all aware that this might be cranky week, but now that we know this, you know, we can potentially mitigate it all together.

Maybe, yeah. Make everyone happier. 

Danielle Daem: Yes, exactly. And maybe invites all of you to rest. Right? I mean, everybody. 

Michael Kummer: That's a very fair point, because, you know, as you said, you know, I mean, we are probably all running around like a chicken without a head way too much and too often. So it probably helps everyone to rest.

Take it easy, you know, for during certain times of the month and yeah and recharge and then power back in, you know Yeah a week later. Yeah, fair point. All right, cool What else do we have? What else is is there in between all of those topics that we've discussed that you feel like this is something that needs to be covered hurt because the thing is, you know, you don't know what you don't know.

There are so many things just yesterday, I got an email from someone and saying, Hey, I watched one of your videos and I did not know, you know, all of those things, you know, plant toxins and, and, and whatnot, and I'm like, well, you know, You don't know what you don't know, you know, and there's many things that I learn every day and I'm like, how on earth did I not know this before?

Um, what are, we, and we don't have to go into, you know, the, the, down the rabbit hole on every single one of those, but what are some of the things that I'm like, this is something you want to look into. This is something you want to read up on. This is something, you know, visit my blog or, you know, whatever resources you can point people to, to kind of get an idea of what could be preventing them from reaching their full potential, you know, physically as well as mentally.

Danielle Daem: Yeah, yeah, I think we covered, we covered a lot, a really good collection of things here, just this deep understanding, a reminder. for everyone listening that you're not broken. You know, I really want to hit this home as well. I think many people are blaming themselves for what the food industry has tripped us into.

The billion dollars that are spent, you know, hijacking our taste buds, hijacking, you know, our bodies with pharmaceuticals and pesticides. And I mean, there's a lot going on. The world is complicated. And I think, you know, I think, yes, we have a lot of control over what we can do, right? This isn't to disempower yourself, but just to remind yourself that you're not broken and you can, you still do have a lot of agency and a lot of control over what you can do to be healthy, as I know you're talking a lot about on your show.

Right? All these things that we can add in to support the detoxification of these toxins, right? And to support our body and, you know, not eating the sugar, eating the whole real food. So, just really remembering that and, and I think the rabbit hole I would love everybody to go down is that, um, that piece around how our body keeps the score.

That's actually a book that I highly recommend, The Body Keeps the Score, um, Also, Gabor Maté's work, just understanding how our past has actually influenced the way that we behave today, whether it's with food, or in relationships, or people pleasing tendencies, like everything in which we are, and when we don't actually honor who we truly are, we will never really get to where we want to be, so what I mean by that is one of One of the biggest, um, I'll call it a trauma, one of the saddest things that has happened in our society, and I confidently say this has happened to all of us because we've been raised in North America, most countries this has happened, is we were not actually supported.

Our society is not set up to actually support you to fully be your authentic self. There is a time in your young years where you are taught how to behave, what a good girl and good boy does and what they don't do, and, and put into the structure of how you get to, uh, cope and fit in in society. And often this is at the detriment of our authenticity.

You know, we look at kids, I know you have kids and a farm and, I mean, so beautiful because I'm willing to bet they get to just, you know, be wild and free and explore and be curious and be themselves. And this is one of the biggest pieces that I think we all carry is this inability to really know who we are because we've been taught that who we are didn't fit in.

So coming back into that is a massive piece of this journey as well. And in my opinion, a massive piece of why a lot of people have identity crises, right? I mean, we make jokes about that in our society that, you know, When men get to, like, 40, 50, right, they're buying the red Corvette, and, um, I think that's a big part of, like, having lost who we truly are, getting sucked up in, like, what we should be doing, what society or parents or religious, you know, uh, communities have told us we have to do to be a good person, and, um, We really kind of lost parts of ourselves.

So I would love everybody to just sit with that and, and, um, you know, perhaps coming back into really truly knowing who you are and not being afraid of authentically being yourself. We need more authenticity now more than ever in this world. 

Michael Kummer: Well, I mean, that opens up a whole, you know, new can of worms, I think, because, you know, our kids are, you know, we took them out of school, you know, for many of those reasons where we can really, you know, allow them to be, you know, what they, who they want to be, but there are certain things You know, going back to how both my wife and I were raised, you know, you, you, you don't chew with an open mouth, you know, you, you, you know, you don't do certain things, you do certain things, you know, because that's how we, you know, that's how we are, you know, who we are.

How much of that do you think, especially when it comes to children and to raising kids, Should you enforce just because you think it's right or should they just chew with their mouth open because that's what they want to do, you know? Where, where do you draw the line and where do you, um, cause damage, you know, then down the line versus what is something that is probably benign, you know, if you enforce it or not.

Danielle Daem: Right. Yeah. Big, big question. Um, not having kids yet myself, you know, I can only speak to what I've seen and my own beliefs on this and what I've learned. Um, you know, I, I truly believe the line is where is your child harming themselves or others, right? If it's something that's going to hurt someone else, like, okay, we don't hit your brother, right?

Like, well, okay, we don't punch holes in the wall, right? Maybe there are things that are definitely clear that, okay, we're going to teach them not to do or to do, and we're going to do that lovingly. And the difference here is, As you, you know, are teaching maybe something that's not okay to do, like, no, it's not okay to hit your sister, it's an energy of, I still love you, even if you do that.

Right? I think that's a part of a lot of what we're carrying is we feel so shamed and so guilted for being bad, right? And understanding that as we're learning and growing, like, I'm still going to love you, even if you do something wrong. So as you're teaching, you know, keeping an eye on that. Um, your specific example of chewing with your mouth open is really interesting because my gut says I would let my kids do it.

I would let them do it. Um, you know, as long as, and being cautious, is it because it feels authentically good for them? Or are they attempting to get attention? Or like, is there some, some other motive behind, are they trying to be goofy? Are they trying to get attention? Are they not feeling loved today? So they're trying to like, you know, bring in the goof or something to, so I would just pay attention to like what the instinct is.

But if it's honestly like how they really are enjoying their food, then let them do it. That's my opinion. Let them do it. Right. And. Let them make a mess, let them eat with their fingers, let them explore, right, especially with food, I mean, children need to explore all the senses, right, they're not gonna sit still, they might not even sit at the table, right, there's a lot of, like, where do you actually wanna, you know, sit and eat together, I mean, every family is gonna be different, and I think it's just important that you're tuning into you.

What you feel is going to be, you know, the most supportive for your family, and, you know, where are some of the areas that it doesn't really matter, right? That you're probably putting your own, like, ooh, that's dirty, you know, putting your hands in the dirt, for example, right? I mean, some people think that, right?

And I'd be like, no, get in there, get covered in mud, right? Like, do it. Um, yeah, so obviously everybody's gonna be different, but I think it's that line of, yeah, just Non harming. And then also, yes, there is the consideration of, you know, wanting to raise children who can somewhat function in society, right? I don't know if we necessarily want to assimilate everyone.

I don't think our society is necessarily that great, you know, in terms of like our societal norms. So there's nothing wrong with like doing things differently. But making sure that, you know, they know how to speak respectfully, and, you know, say thank you, and things like that can be obviously really helpful.

Michael Kummer: Yeah, yeah, no I agree, and I've noticed that, you know, sometimes when we say, well, you know, don't, don't, you know, sit, you know, straight at the table, or whatever the case might be, and I'm like, We're already doing so many things differently, and we're teaching them to do things differently, but then we tell them not to do things differently, you know.

That might be different to how we want to do things, you know, and I'm like, okay, we really have to kind of, you know, ease up and, and reassess if this is really something worth enforcing, um, again, because, you know, they might hurt themselves or whatever, or if it's just something that we are not used to because we grew up differently, which doesn't make it any better or any worse.

It's just different, you know? 

Danielle Daem: Right. Right. Is it because of your belief, right? Or even your patterns, right? That you're enforcing that? Um, the other piece that I think is important to add to that conversation is, like, if you do see your child doing something that, like, maybe doesn't look healthy or, uh, like, you know, hunching over all the time, right, is inviting in the conversation around the body again.

Like, how does it feel when you eat hunched over like that? Like, does that, does that feel good to you? Like, how does that feel in your body, right? Or when kids eat a bunch of ice cream and then, like, have a temper tantrum after, right? Like, it's such a beautiful conversation. I mean, depending on the age of your child is.

How did that actually feel in your body? Oh, I felt crappy after writing like I didn't like that I got sad after or you know starting to make those connections for like how they're acting or Behaving or moving and how it's actually impacting them. 

Michael Kummer: Yes Yeah, absolutely and we've that's that's a very good point because we've been doing this, you know Sometimes especially the younger one is like, oh can I have?

You know, X, Y, Z, I'm like, well, you can, but, you know, pay attention to how you feel after, and then it's like, you know, I have this, I have a tummy ache, I'm like, well, that's because what you ate, you know, so maybe next time, you know, don't eat that, you know, and it might, and we don't have crab food at home or junk food at home, but even for him, bananas, half a banana is fine, a whole banana doesn't sit well in his stomach, you know, even though he loves how the banana tastes, but I'm like, listen to your body, you know, you think it's good for you?

Or maybe not, you know? 

Danielle Daem: Yeah, beautiful. Love that you're doing that. Yeah, so good. I think that's so important. 

Michael Kummer: Yeah. All right, cool. Well, I thank you so much. There was a really a lot of information in there. Um, I hope my editor hopefully is gonna, you know, put all of that together in a nice package with transcript and show notes and everything to make sure we have, uh, something that, you know, people can also follow up with.

Uh, everything you already sent me, everything, like all the links and resources, right? That's part of the intake, so we're gonna have all of that there as well if people want to find you, but just, you know, if you want to You know, call it out. What is a good, if people want to connect with you, you know, follow you, see what you're doing, where can people find you?

Danielle Daem: Yeah, definitely. Yeah, you have all the links below for sure for the show notes, but you can come and check out my website, danielledame. com. Uh, my podcast is probably the best place. You're going to be a guest really soon on there. I'm so excited to have you on the show. Uh, it's called Beyond Sugar Freedom.

It's the name of the podcast. You can find it on Apple and Spotify. So come check that out. Um, and then of course I'm on Instagram and Facebook, Danielle Dame, uh, as well. You can come connect with me there, send me a message, keep the conversation going. 

Michael Kummer: All right. Sounds good. Well, thank you very much, Dani.

Appreciate your time. And I'm looking forward to talking to you again soon on your show. 

Danielle Daem: Yes. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me here and thanks for listening everyone. I hope that you got a lot out of that. 

Michael Kummer: All right. Thank you.