59: Paleo, Keto, Carnivore [Navigating Dietary Changes as a Family]

59: Paleo, Keto, Carnivore [Navigating Dietary Changes as a Family]

Michael Kummer: Our health journey began when we decided to remove processed sugars, when you were diagnosed with prediabetes. 

Katherine Kummer: Guys, we got into a fight. Okay, we have to be honest here. 

Michael Kummer: What if we are, you know, feeding our kids paleo and then it turns out to be terrible for their health? 

Katherine Kummer: It was hard in the beginning, but then, you know, I slowly learned.

Michael Kummer: And then I think I went to Paleo FX or something, and I came back with the revelation that Paleo is not good enough. Keto is where it's at. You know, we need to cut out all the carbs. 

Katherine Kummer: And now looking back We had stomach issues. Our son had stomach issues, and I think it was because we were giving them almond flour, for example.

Michael Kummer: But in my defense, I have to say, you know, after the paleo and keto fiasco, I learned, I had learned my lesson a little bit. And so I approached that transition, the potential transition or my interest in carnivore a little bit differently.

Intro: You're listening to the Primal Shift podcast. I'm your host, Michael Kummer, and my goal is to help you achieve optimal health by bridging the gap between ancestral living and the demands of modern society, get ready to unlock the transformative power of nature as the ultimate biohack revolutionizing your health and reconnecting you with your primal self.

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Michael Kummer: Adopting a healthy lifestyle, really challenged. Our marriage and our relationship. And in this episode, we're going to talk about some of those challenges and why adopting a healthy lifestyle sounds so easy on paper.

And when you hear someone else say it, but there are, you know, real life consequences to doing certain things and doing things differently that can really put a strain on your relationship. And so in today's episode, I invited my wife, Kathy, back because she loves being in front of a camera. And, uh, we're going to talk about some of those challenges that we have faced over the years, how we've overcome them and what our strategy is now moving forward with potentially implementing new stuff that we don't even know about is good for us.

Right? Welcome back to the show. 

Katherine Kummer: Thank you. It's fun, you know, being here with you and chat a little bit about all those changes and, you know, things that we've done over the years. 

Michael Kummer: Yes. And maybe let's start, I mean, just to set the stage. Thanks so much. Our health journey began when we decided to remove processed sugars.

When you were diagnosed with prediabetes, that was back in the days when we were still boyfriend and girlfriend. And we both embraced the change. You know, we removed added sugars, products with added sugars and stuff. And everything was good. But then, one day, um, I remember, and I'm sure you do, I woke up and I decided, We gotta do paleo.

Well, I gotta do paleo. Paleo is the holy grail of nutrition. And starting today, I'm gonna do paleo. And of course, I was not the one preparing food. Um, usually that was you. 

Katherine Kummer: Yeah, of course, like a good Latina, you know, I like to feed my people. 

Michael Kummer: And so how did you respond to your husband saying, we're gonna Change from a, I guess, standard American diet, wasn't that, you know, it wasn't a terrible, terrible diet, but it was very close to it, um, back in the days.

To doing something entirely different, cutting out entire food groups, how did that make you feel? 

Katherine Kummer: Oh gosh, I remember, guys, we got into a fight, okay? We have to be honest here. We got into a fight because for me, it was removing, my Latin, my Latina, you know, love of cooking and feeding my family. So, um, I remember we were traveling with your mom and we got into this huge fight about that because I'm like, well, what does paleo mean?

Like, what are we doing? And he said, removing beans, rice. So basically a gallo pinto, you know, a traditional dish from Costa Rica. Um, removing, what else? Lentils I used to cook a lot. Um, no more burgers, you know, all grains, all dairy, dairy. I mean, I never consume a lot of dairy, but, 

Michael Kummer: you know, grains and legumes was tough for you.

Katherine Kummer: Yes. So, you know, in my culture, that's something that we eat often, you know, and for me, like a lentil soup on a rainy day. Removing that was very, it didn't sound right to me and I was more like a cultural. thing and not really understanding, you know, you know, the, the nutrition part. 

Michael Kummer: And it was also at the same time, because, you know, both of us really had very little understanding of human metabolism and all.

And so you also raised the concern, but what if, you know, just because someone's saying that paleo is how you should be eating, what if you're wrong? Or what if that person is wrong? What if we are wrong? What if we are, you know, feeding our kids paleo and then it turns out to be terrible for their health?

Katherine Kummer: Yes. 

Michael Kummer: Right, that was also. 

Katherine Kummer: Yeah, just like your mom, when she heard our conversation, she was like, what is going to happen? What, you know, what about if you're wrong? And so it was hard. It was hard to make the change. And also I have to admit that I'm, uh, my personality doesn't allow, or I just don't do very well with changes and mostly you're very good at it.

You decide to do something and you just go to more or in the next five minutes and you will do it. For me, I'm like very slow learner and I like to take my time. So that was like, no, we're not doing this. And it took me a few months, you know, to, I mean, we went through our pantry, you know, processed food was out of, you know, our pantry.

We were eating a lot of, for the first few months, we were eating just a piece of steak with vegetables or a salad. 

Michael Kummer: And funny enough, it was, now thinking back, it was a lot of the, I guess veggies that are some of the least toxic ones, I guess, like zucchini. Yes, we did a lot of zucchini. We were grilling a lot.

Yeah, it was grilled zucchini and steak. 

Katherine Kummer: Yes. That 

Michael Kummer: was for us paleo. 

Katherine Kummer: Yes. 

Michael Kummer: Right? And the one change that I noticed almost immediately was my IBS, my irritable bowel syndrome, which I had for decades, was gone like this. And it was gone because of, you know, we removed all the trigger foods basically that we weren't supposed to be eating anyway.

And, um, and, but then along the lines, you know, you learned more about, oh, paleo, you know, you can actually make traditional dishes paleo friendly. And we got cookbooks. And 

Katherine Kummer: yeah, I, I went through all the paleo books and. You know, I purchased books from Daniel Walker and those were my holy grail. You know, I went through four books of her, you know, did all the recipes pretty much, even for the kids, you know, for Halloween, we were making.

Chocolate chip cookie, but with a spider, you know, I would make it with melted chocolate, you know, like a spider. And so I needed to still feel connected with food, like in a way that to keep traditions, you know, in our family. And it was hard in the beginning, but then, you know, I slowly learned. and preparing for it differently.

Michael Kummer: And then we thought, well, you thought, you know, we're all good. We are settled. Life is good. We are on this paleo train now. We have it figured out. We know how to cook, what to cook. And then I think I went to paleo FX or something and I came back with the revelation that Paleo is not good enough. Keto is where it's at.

You know, we need to cut out all the carbs. Um, not just, you know, the highly processed ones, but you know, everything, you know, honey, maple syrup, you know, all of the things that you used for baking, you know, all of that has to go. And that was the the second time when we're like, we are not on the same page, you know, because I was convinced that keto is where we, you know, carbs are bad.

Carbs are going to kill us, you know, and so we need to do keto. We need to be in ketosis in order to enjoy optimal health. And 

Katherine Kummer: so again, we went through another transition. I was the one who was cooking, so I had to come up with, uh, keto rolls, keto, uh, I don't know, a lot of recipes I had to look up and, you know, go through, you know, all that again.

Michael Kummer: Yeah. 

Katherine Kummer: Uh, getting stevia, you know, uh, monk fruit, familiar how do you say that word? Famili familiarize? 

Michael Kummer: Familiarize? 

Katherine Kummer: Familiarize, you know, myself with Other types of, you know, sweeteners, almond flour, coconut flour. Oh, well, that's okay. 

Michael Kummer: But almond flour You know, back 

Katherine Kummer: then, we were like, no, we're good. You know, like, we don't have any issues.

And now, looking back, we had stomach issues. 

Michael Kummer: Our 

Katherine Kummer: son had stomach issues. And I think it was because we were giving them You know, almond flour, for example, or you know what, almond milk, I mean, so all that, and looking back, we had stomach issues. 

Michael Kummer: Yes. 

Katherine Kummer: Now we don't have all that. 

Michael Kummer: Right, right. And, right. And so keto, you know, we figured out, well, you know, you, you really gotta, because keto got to a point, you know, commercially, as well as, you know, within our family, I think where you can do a lot of things, keto, just because they're low carb doesn't necessarily mean they're healthy.

You know what I mean? You can, you know, cook in seed oils and, and eat the cheapest bacon you can find and it's keto. But it's not good for your health, you know, and so we kind of made the transition back a little bit to a paleolithic ketogenic diet. 

Katherine Kummer: Yes. 

Michael Kummer: To focus more on ingredient quality. 

Katherine Kummer: Yes. 

Michael Kummer: Um, while still being I 

Katherine Kummer: was cooking a lot with 

Michael Kummer: ghee.

Uh huh. 

Katherine Kummer: Which is clarified butter and we were doing well with that. 

Michael Kummer: Yeah. 

Katherine Kummer: Um, I liked it. I was also cooking, since paleo allows bacon, I was cooking a lot with bacon and keto too. So the bacon fat I would, um, you know, save and then I would cook the eggs next morning with that. Um, so yeah, that, I feel like the seed oils were long gone, you know, for, you know, For us they 

Michael Kummer: were, yeah, we, we cut them out pretty early.

That's true. I mean, even I think during the paleo phase, I think there were some like sesame oil or whatever we might have used, but after that, 

Katherine Kummer: yeah, 

Michael Kummer: we pretty much transitioned to animal fats. 

Katherine Kummer: Yeah, we were, yeah. 

Michael Kummer: And then carnivore came along, but. But in my defense I have to say, you know, after the paleo and keto fiasco, I learned, I had learned my lesson a little bit and so I approached the transition, the potential transition or my interest in, or my interest in carnivore a little bit differently.

So with carnivore I said, don't worry, we're not gonna do carnivore, but I'd like to try it out for 30, 60 days, what have you. And I did, and I realized it's great, it's a great, I think, pool for us, for me, maybe to, you know, wanna reset your gut if you're dealing with something, if you wanna, you know, do something good for you, to boost your vitality, what have you, um, but doing them, going back to a more animal based diet that can include seasonal sweet fruits, the least toxic plants, And also learning at the same time how to process, and by that I don't mean, you know, buying processed food in the store, but to ferment, soak, sprout, heat, you know, do all of those things that humans have learned on how to mitigate some of the toxins in food while making the nutrients more bioavailable, especially in the plant world, you don't really have to do much with animals, but by incorporating those, we are now on a fairly, I want to say, comparatively speaking, relaxed diet.

but we feel better than we've ever felt. And we kind of know, you know, what we can get away with, what we can do, what we cannot do to maintain health that's as optimal, I think, as, as, as reasonably possible. 

Katherine Kummer: Yes. And I have to point out that you now have, I mean, again, a different approach. It's not like Kathy, I'm doing this and you know, you can join me or not, you know, like you're more like caring, you know, of what, You know, how I'm going to react at the same time I've been following, you know, other influencers, other people in social media where I get my information and it's not only on you, because I feel like, you know, if it's your spouse, who's, you know, coming to tell you that you're more like, ah, but when it's somebody else and they are like, well, but my husband has been saying that.

And then I connect the dots. You know, like, um, it's just a slow for me, you know, like I have to hear it from somebody else and not just, uh, you. And I'm not saying this in a, in a mean or disrespectful way. It's just how I, you know, try to see things. 

Michael Kummer: And it's good to always, you know, like check and verify because we all live in our echo, you know, chamber in our bubble.

where we kind of, you know, hear people say things we already know to reconfirm what we think is true. And sometimes it's good to get, you know, a different perspective from someone you trust, be it a spouse or, you know, another influencer or someone you follow, you know, that you trust. And then kind of, you know, figure out, okay, I thought that A, but that person said B and I trust what the person is saying.

So how does that match up? And 

Katherine Kummer: right. 

Michael Kummer: And what can we get out of, you know, all of those opinions to do something that makes sense for us? 

Katherine Kummer: Like one good example where I was having doubts, you know, like for me it was the cold plunge, you know, I'm like, I can't do a 33 degree, you know, cold plunge. Like I just, I tried once.

It was very, very hard for me to do and finish it. I mean, actually, I didn't stay in for, 

Michael Kummer: well, like, 10 

Katherine Kummer: seconds and I was out. And then I started reading this book and then I also started asking myself, like, it can't be right that a woman can do that, uh, temperature. And I came to you after I read and then, you know, it popped in my feed and, you know, my Instagram feed and stuff.

And I told you, Mike, I think. we have to increase the temperature of the cold plunge for me to be able to do it. Uh, apparently women don't tolerate heat, uh, not heat, um, cold, uh, as easily as you, man. And that's when, you know, now we have two cold plunge, you know, that are, or ice baths, you know, that are different temperatures, but you were listening to me, like, here is the facts, you know, women can tolerate cold.

You know, like you do. And so you were open to listen and then we adjust, you know, but that was a good example where I take my time and I, I knew at that point that I'm like, no, I mean, I can do 33 

Michael Kummer: degree from what would you say is the biggest challenge in, in living a somewhat healthy lifestyle in our modern society?

Why is it so? Why is not everyone doing it? If, I mean, it's simple on paper, you know, eat well, sleep well. You know, exercise. It's, it's very simple, but it's not easy. Why do you think it is? 

Katherine Kummer: Well, if you think about it now, you have to go to an office from nine to five, you know, and you are in an enclosure, you know, women are looking for careers, you know, success.

Um, we also want to bring something to the house. Um, I think, you know, I think everything, all the little things add up. 

Michael Kummer: Do you think that It's, it's inconvenient or how much effort is it on a daily basis, you know, if you go to a restaurant, you know, and you want to eat out, um, if you, you know, take the kids to a birthday party and they serve food that, you know, you don't agree with, you know.

Well, you want 

Katherine Kummer: to go to the easy route, that would be like, let's just eat whatever, you know, many people don't think about, you know, what are you putting in your body, you know, it's, Just following, like, you don't want to be the odd one out, you know, like, you want to just be like everybody else. You don't want to be different.

And also, you know, being comfortable. Why doing something uncomfortable? Why, you know, cooking a whole meal when I can just order up? 

Michael Kummer: Right. 

Katherine Kummer: Have it delivered in the, you know, like. 

Michael Kummer: Right. 

Katherine Kummer: It's just the convenience. I think life has, you know, That's the biggest change, I think, in society. It's just comfortable.

Michael Kummer: Yeah. I think it's, it's most people are not comfortable being uncomfortable. And, and they don't want to be, I mean, I don't say they don't want to be challenged because, you know, if you look at some professionals that work, you know, 80 hours a week, I mean, they certainly, that's not easy, you know, but in many other cases or in many other areas of life, people just don't want to feel the discomfort.

They just want to, Do what everyone else is doing without thinking of whether or not 

Katherine Kummer: it's so much easier to pack a lunch for school for the kids with all those lunchables. Just go to, you know, Walmart or anywhere, just grab the little packages, put them in the lunchbox and you're done. When I did the lunch boxes for our kids, I had to use the leftovers from dinner, you know, or cook a whole new meal.

You know, to be able and then thinking about how I'm going to keep it cool, right? Like it's not as warm or warm. It's not as easy and people have a hard time doing the, the extra work because I think that's what it is. You know, the extra work and now people are really busy with so many other things. If you think about it, nobody leaves in a more.

Um, slow, um, 

Michael Kummer: yeah, 

Katherine Kummer: simple, doesn't have to be so complicated. 

Michael Kummer: So between diet, sleep, like going to bed early, what we do, um, exercise, removing xenoestrogens from personal care products, from food storage containers. Um, what else do we do? Um, I mean, generally, you know, reducing EMFs, you know, all from all of the things that we have done and that we are doing, what is the most challenging for you?

Oh, 

Katherine Kummer: gosh, uh, that's a really tough one. I think it was, okay, I'm going to start with the fun part, you know, changing all the containers from plastic to, you know, I had to go to Amazon and, you know, check, you know, what's out there in glass, you know, new makeup, you know. All those things are kind of like fun.

Michael Kummer: But also expensive. 

Katherine Kummer: They're very expensive. So I didn't do everything in one shot. We didn't do it. No. Um, but I think food for me is the hardest change. Um, what else? What do you think?

Michael Kummer: That's a good question. I mean, Incredibly difficult. I don't think, I think maybe for me, the convenience of knowing if I go out and if we eat out, it's always going to be way below what we would normally do at home. That realization that we can't really go out and enjoy a meal that meets our standards.

Knowing that is like, meh, you know, because I wish. Yeah, exactly. That's why 

Katherine Kummer: I think it's the hardest food. 

Michael Kummer: You know, 

Katherine Kummer: when you go to a party, then your friends, uh, want to do a birthday party and then you have to go and eat out and, you know, you always get criticized or point out, you know, that you are, oh, now you're not going to eat the carbs or you're not going to do this and that, you know, I loosen up a little bit when I go out with my friends or when I go somewhere.

Um, but it's still within that frame, right? Um, so I think food for me is the hardest. You know, when I go visit family or like it adds a stress. You know, in my life. And you shouldn't though. 

Michael Kummer: I think leaving home generally, leaving our protective bubble where we have everything, most everything figured out, like going on a trip.

Okay, now we, you know, we check in the Airbnb, we have to ask, you know, hey, can you remove all the air fresheners? We don't want to have any, you know, fragrances in the air that are, you know, uh, estrogenic. You know, we want to have down pillows instead of synthetic pillows. Are there linens, you know, is that, you know, organic cotton or, you know, 

Katherine Kummer: But hotels, they're accommodate.

Michael Kummer: Same, I mean, a lot of, you know, accommodate. Or going down to a restaurant, hey, can you use butter instead of a seed oil, you know, to cook? Or, you know, all of those things that you have to kind of arrange. I almost feel like sometimes, you know, it's like us leaving the house. It's like, you know, when the president travels to another country, you know, you almost have to send, you know, like a team, um, you know, ahead and make sure everything is set before you arrive.

All right. Next and last big topic we want to, we want to cover in this episode is growing your own food because That's been, I think, the biggest transition in the last few years from us, to go from making proper food choices when we buy it, to saying, okay, you know what, what's in the store, what's available around us, doesn't really cut it.

We want to be in control of our own food supply and so that means growing food like, you know, the animals you might or might not see in the back, you know, eggs, uh, meat, honey, et cetera, vegetables to, you know, to a degree. Um, why did you decide or agree at least to, to do that? What, what's the, what was the driver for you to say, you know what, let's give this a try.

Let's, let's try this out. 

Katherine Kummer: Mostly with, um, fruits, like the raspberries and strawberries is so rewarding, you know, when you, and also because they are very easy to grow, you know, and then you have this big reward, it's, you know, like I accomplished something, you check that box, you know, of, this is fun and it's easy, it doesn't have to take a lot of space, it doesn't have to take a lot of time, um, with, you know, we, we've been doing like a trial and error, you know, some vegetables, not vegetables, but you know, our fruit trees, you know, they're being hard to, you know, like maintain and, you know, like fertilize and to keep up.

And there's this box and then the animals eat them. And like, it's been really challenging, but we still want to try. And, you know, that's the cool thing, you know, about homesteading. You still want to try, you still want to see, no, I can do this. So I think it has like a reward, you know, like in, in a good way where, you know, Here I put an effort, and this is what is giving me back.

Michael Kummer: Right. 

Katherine Kummer: And having, you know, like the strawberries out there, and the kids can pick and eat them. We go, you know, pick the raspberries, and the kids are just eating them from the I mean, I love that. I don't wanna, you know, you cannot do that in the, uh, the supermarket. 

Michael Kummer: No, but, and you mentioned, you know, mostly plant based stuff, which, you know, we obviously grow as well, but 

Katherine Kummer: Well, raspberries, strawberries 

Michael Kummer: Right.

Would you say it's easier to grow plants or to grow animals or to raise animals for food? 

Katherine Kummer: It's easier the animals.

What? 

Michael Kummer: Yeah. No, I mean, generally I would, I would agree. And I wanted to make that point because, you know, yes, it is easy, you know, to grow raspberries, to grow strawberries, what have you. But also the, the nutrients and especially the calories, the energy you get out of those foods is, is relatively small, right?

Right. If you, you know, raise chickens, the eggs, you know, I mean, we got what, 27 eggs a day. 

Katherine Kummer: Yes. 

Michael Kummer: You know, that's a lot of nutrients, very, you know, bioavailable, readily absorbable nutrients and also a good amount of calories, right? From an energetic perspective. 

Katherine Kummer: Yeah, and I was about to say, you know, like that's with the animals is the same.

You have the chickens, the layers, and then you just go and grab, you know, the eggs and maybe have a snake waiting for you in there. But you know, it's always, you know, rewarding. The kids love the animals. You know, and it's not so difficult to have the lane. 

Michael Kummer: No, no, but also let's not romanticize, because I think everyone is under the impression, you know, you watch, you know, some homestead on YouTube and everything seems so easy and so, you know, much fun.

Now, it is everything combined, you know, end to end is where 

Katherine Kummer: you do the morning chore is 

Michael Kummer: a lot of work. It's a lot of work. It's a lot of sleep. That's right. It's, uh, it's responsibility. It's not that, you know, I mean, maybe with, you know, if you're a respirator in season, you can go on vacation. 

Katherine Kummer: It is exactly traveling with, you know, having all these animals, it's been a challenge, you know, to leave them.

You know, you don't know what is going to happen, how the farm seeder is going to do. You know, it's not as easy. Yes, definitely. I mean, you can leave the raspberries and the birds and the deer might eat them. 

Michael Kummer: Right. But you cannot leave the chickens unattended or whatever the rabbits. 

Katherine Kummer: Yeah. I mean, we just came back from traveling and we lost one of our roosters.

So it's not easy, but it's really rewarding. Like just, You know, growing raspberries is rewarding to just go and get the eggs. 

Michael Kummer: And I think, you know, and that's kind of, you know, goes hand in hand. You know, a lot of people say, Oh, you know, groceries are so expensive, especially high quality ones. And I know what we are spending on.

Katherine Kummer: I mean, we had that conversation. I came once from the grocery store and I was like, Mike. I mean, I can't believe how much I'm spending. We're spending in 

Michael Kummer: a week that others, you know, back in the days you would have, well, I don't want to say back in the days because obviously inflation. Yeah. 

Katherine Kummer: Inflation. Yeah.

Michael Kummer: But still there are families that probably have a monthly grocery budget that is our weekly, you know, and, and they, you know, they couldn't do what we do in terms of, but first of all, you know, I think health, healthy food has gotten, appears to be significantly more expensive, but I think a main point or a main factor is that all the crab food, the monocrops, the soy, you know, the corn, it gets subsidized, you know, so we don't really pay the true cost of those foods and all the processed foods made from those, you know, ingredients and products.

Because we with our tax dollars, you know, subsidize at the end of the day, you know, corn being grown and potentially being destroyed because we have too much to keep the prices, you know, where they are. And so, you know, that doesn't happen for, you know, grass fed, grass finished meat, you know, and so that skews already the picture a little bit, but then on the other hand, I think we've also, um, we've also got accustomed to paying next to nothing for food or food like substances.

For all of that crap that we, you know, used to eat, it was dirt cheap, but it wasn't really food, you know, it makes you healthy and you pay for it in the long run, um, you know, and so you really have to, I think, reprioritize or rebudget, you know. your, your, your groceries and make sure, you know, you're spending, because food is one of the most important things besides housing.

And, you know, maybe, you know, clothing and, and those things that we, that we need to live. It's not a nice to have, it's a, you know, have to have, 

Katherine Kummer: you 

Michael Kummer: know, a car on the other hand is probably more a nice car in particular is a nice to have, you know? So if you see where you spent the money, I think more of that money should go towards, you know, proper food.

Um, and you know, healthy housing, you know, and, and all of those things. 

Katherine Kummer: And again, you know, when I came to you and I was like really, you know, in shock of how much I spend, you know, just going to the grocery store. I remember, I think that's the time that we decided to do the meat birds. Yes. Because I wanted to eat chicken, you know, and just to switch it up a little bit.

And even for the kids, my youngest, our youngest, you know, he, he, he has a hard time eating red meat. You know, constantly, like every day. Our daughter, on the other hand, she can eat a pound of ground meat. 

Michael Kummer: Every day. Every day. 

Katherine Kummer: You know? So, I needed to have that option, you know, that I can switch things up. And I think it's been great.

Michael Kummer: Yeah. 

Katherine Kummer: You know, you've been doing a good effort. 

Michael Kummer: Thank you. Appreciate it. All right, to wrap it up, um, a question. What would you tell your how old are you now? 30 ish something. 36. 

Katherine Kummer: Yeah. 

Michael Kummer: Let's 

Katherine Kummer: make it public. 

Michael Kummer: Yeah. 36. , what would you tell your 20-year-old self? Oh, God. Um, you know what, you know, if you can, you know, rewind time, what would you go the same route?

Would you do things differently? Would you take shortcuts? Would you implement things sooner? What, what is your, what? What should you know, 20-year-old women ideally do? So you don't have to go through 16 years of. Learning and making mistakes. 

Katherine Kummer: I will learn how to cook. 

Michael Kummer: Mm hmm. That's a very good. 

Katherine Kummer: Um, I will learn how to cook how to prepare You know food at home.

Michael Kummer: Mm hmm. 

Katherine Kummer: I would make the time to exercise 

Michael Kummer: mm hmm 

Katherine Kummer: and Try as much as you can to prioritize sleep because I sleep a lot like seriously like I go to sleep nine hours I would prioritize sleep learn how to cook how to you know, like many people have You to go to an office. Try to make time to prepare your food that you can take to the office.

Michael Kummer: Yes. 

Katherine Kummer: You know, and another very important that we haven't really talked about is sun exposure. 

Michael Kummer: Mm hmm. 

Katherine Kummer: I would change my sunblock. That's why we add an 

Michael Kummer: umbrella. 

Katherine Kummer: Well, at least we have our feet, I mean, our legs now, but you know, I would change the, you know, the sunblock that I would use on my twenties, you know, you're traveling with your friends and you're going to the beach and no, but see, well, I would not even try to use the sunblock, but if I'm going to the beach for a long time, you know, and it's winter and then I would, you know, try to protect myself, but sun exposure, I've realized that it's so good for.

You know, like when I'm sick, I come outside where I sit on the balcony, so I would tell my younger self to prioritize sleep as much as you can. I know that there is parties and college and all this and you have to study and then you're probably doing a part time job, but I would try to learn a few skills, you know, and prioritize sleep.

Michael Kummer: Yeah, that's a good one, yeah. What about you? Oh, I would be radical. I would, I would, I would try to figure out how I can be my own boss much sooner than later. So instead of being employed working for someone, I would definitely avoid any traditional schooling and education and just learn stuff that I, that I think.

Katherine Kummer: But it's something that you kind of did. 

Michael Kummer: Hm? 

Katherine Kummer: It's something that you 

Michael Kummer: kind of I'm very late. I mean, I would not, I mean, yeah, I mean, at 20, you know, most of my formal education had already happened, but, you know, if I could even, you know, turn back time more, then I would, you know, do something. I would probably go to a vocational school or something where I learn a trade, where I learn how to work with my hands, where I learn how to, you know, how to take care of the soil, how to take care of animals, how to grow food, how to build stuff, how to repair stuff.

Katherine Kummer: And then we would have never met. 

Michael Kummer: Well, that's a downside. That is, that is true. It probably would not even be in the US. I don't know where I would be. 

Katherine Kummer: But that's a good advice for it. You know, 

Michael Kummer: yeah, I mean, really, you know, go back to go back to the basics and really think about what humans have done for a very long time.

It doesn't matter if you believe in evolution or not, however long you think humans have been on this planet back in the days in the early times, you know, humans did things differently and did not suffer from all of those metabolic diseases that most of us. suffer from today. And so take cues from there and, and, you know, avoid, you know, going to the movie theater and eating, well, it was actually 10 cheeseburgers and a gallon of iced tea sweetened, of course, with some M& Ms to wash it all down.

Yeah. You would, um, avoid those things and, and, you know, focus more on, on, on the basics, you know, learn as much as you can. And, and yeah, 

Katherine Kummer: I just hope that the kids are going to watch this episode at some point in there. 

Michael Kummer: Well, they're hopefully watching us to a degree every single day. So they get, you know, a piece of that episode every single day.

And one can only hope that they're gonna do something with it. They 

Katherine Kummer: will. 

Michael Kummer: Because they're all too homeschooled. You know, we didn't talk about that. Maybe we talk about this in a, in a, in a future episode, but they literally see what we do, how we do. every single day. Um, and so hopefully some of it will stick.

Katherine Kummer: This was fun. 

Michael Kummer: Yeah. So thanks for, for coming out to the backyard and yeah, we'll, we shall do this again. I appreciate your, your sharing your insights and subscribe, um, comment everything, engage, engage people. So more people can see this episode and we can share the good news gospel. 

Katherine Kummer: All right.