64: Why Meditation Is Powerful! | Ariel Garten

Why Meditation Is Powerful!

Ariel: Just half a second. My child is hollering for me. Um, so let me just respond to him one sec. 

Michael: All right. And you know, this example right now, I would have, I would bet that 99. 5 percent of the population, you know, if they're on a podcast and the kid interrupts, they would say, be quiet. I'm on a podcast. I can't talk right now, but you handle it differently.

Ariel: One of the best kind of tools and technologies that I've discovered for all of this self management is meditation. 

Michael: I'm a firm believer that a lot of the things that we have done as modern humans are counterproductive from a health perspective. 

Ariel: So you're feeling the sensation of the light on your chest, you're hearing the sounds around you, you're aware of what's in your mind.

Michael: good example would be, you know, a Food at home, you know, we know that we only have food at home that our kids are allowed to have. So we don't have to tell them, no, you cannot have the candy from the pantry even though it's there. Why is it there if you cannot have it, you know? Not, we don't have it at home.

So whatever they find, they can have. 

Ariel: It slips on just like a pair of glasses and it is sensors on your forehead and behind your ears and it tracks your brain activity during your meditation.  

Michael: So it's an EEG. 

Ariel: Yes

Intro:

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Michael: Alright, hey Ariel, thanks so much for joining me on the show today, I much appreciate it.

Hello, 

Ariel: it's my joy and pleasure to be here. 

Michael: Yeah, absolutely. Um, I have a question for you that I'd like to ask before, um, I'll give you an opportunity to, you know, tell the audience a little bit about yourself and how you got into, you know, mental health and meditation and, and all of those things and brain waves and technology to measure that.

Um, my question to you would be, how on earth did we get to where we are right now, where everyone seems to be. With some sort of mental issue, and I don't mean this, you know, a diagnosed, you know, issue whatsoever, but we all appear to have emotional issues that prevent us from, you know, just being normal human beings, you know, to, you know, treat others, you know, respectfully, to, you know, parent without yelling and getting angry about everything.

Why are we so, uh, wired these days? What, what's, what has happened over the last, I don't know, decades or maybe hundreds of years that got us to the point where we are right now? Uh, but before you answer, maybe just introduce yourself, let the audience, you know, let that sink in for a moment while, while you tell us who you are and what you do.

Ariel: Awesome. So hello, my name is Arielle Garten. My background is neuroscience and psychotherapy, and I'm the founder of Muse. We make a device that is a brain sensing headband that helps you meditate and sleep. So I've spent the last decade helping people to understand what goes on in in their mind, both from the neuroscience side, as well as the psychotherapeutic approach.

So I feel, uh, well qualified to answer a piece of that question. Not everybody has the full answer. But what was interesting is as you were asking the question and you said, you know, what is it about right now that makes us yell at our kids and feel so wired and, and, and? I would actually argue that we have been, uh, Unevolved humans for most of human history.

You know, being scared, not being able to process our emotions, having emotional blocks that don't allow us to connect with other people, yelling at our kids when we're angry or frightened or scared or whatever. That is like it. baseline human. You know, we are, we are a collection of drives and the fact that we have tools and techniques that have allowed us to actually sit back and look at ourselves and say, Hey, why am I doing this?

Why am I emotionally blocked? This is entirely new. So this is not like, you know, we've lost some prime, you know, innate ability that we had. It's like, no, as we've developed as a species, you know, the, the original phrase is man to man is wolf. So, you know, that's, that's one. Psychological approach to our past humanity that, you know, people are nothing but these, you know, base needs arguing against one another trying to get for themselves.

And the fact that we've been able to develop any kind of emotional, spiritual, self understanding, ability to understand others deeply and ride beyond those. Instincts that we have, the instincts to get for ourselves, to, you know, uh, push someone else out of the way, to tend for our young above anything else in the world, and like, you know, ignore other people and their feelings and their needs, like, these are our These are all things that we have really worked hard to cultivate, and we have cultivated because when we do it, it becomes successful.

When you cultivate this sense of emotional understanding, or when you're able to overcome your base urges and resist eating the cookie, or resist watching Facebook and instead focus on the work in front of you, or the drive in your life, or, you know, your partner that you're trying to make up with. You know, when we do these things, we get ahead in life.

And so there's been this. Evolutionary pressure, in a sense, to make us kinder, gentler, more cooperative beings so that we survive more effectively, both from a species level and also within our own lives. We recognize that when we do things, society gives us feedback that this is better, we feel better, we get ahead.

Michael: That's interesting. I mean, now you kind of, you know, um, I think provided some context, uh, to make me almost want to not ask the question, but I'm going to do it anyway, because I'm a firm believer that a lot of the things that we have done as modern humans. are counterproductive from a health perspective.

You know, cell phones, lead paint, um, you know, whatever, you name it, it seems like every, almost every invention has a negative impact on our health, you know, because we think we're doing something that's more convenient, that's quicker, that's faster, that's whatever, but it always seems to be biting us in the, in the butt.

Ariel: So I, I also agree with you there. So it's interesting that we have these two pieces that are working counter to each other. So on one hand, you know, his Time has gone on and we've been able to have the time to emotionally self reflect, feel like it's not okay to lynch people 

Michael: as 

Ariel: a punishment for being a witch.

You know, we've grown and matured as a society in some important ways. Um, a lot of us haven't gotten over, you know, many of the drugs 

Michael: and 

Ariel: we've come up with some super amazing technological innovations that have been super helpful. Like, you know, Glasses. I can now see. This is so cool. Hearing aids. I can now hear.

That's incredible technology. You know, surgeries that allow you to live longer. There's been extraordinary technological advantage. Some of them, however, have had some bad implications. Ultra processed food. You know, you go through the history of eating, and several hundred years ago, uh, Yes, the food that we're taking from the ground is very pure, but we also didn't know that you should wash it to avoid, you know, eating too much bacteria.

Some bacteria is good, but you know, you got to figure out the right ones. You shouldn't let it sit on the counter for years. Refrigeration was super helpful to keep us alive. 

Michael: Um, 

Ariel: And then we kind of overcorrected and we're like, Oh, we can be so efficient with these processed foods. We don't even need to have any more real food in it.

We can be efficient and like, you know, make all these crappy mixes. And then we poisoned ourselves with ultra processed foods. Right. So there are certainly many examples in which our good intentions have, A, our good intentions have gone bad. And B, uh, They weren't good intentions in the first place, they were people simply being driven by trying to make a profit by selling you crap you don't need that makes your life worse, not better.

Michael: Right, right. And so from a mental health perspective, because, you know, I see a lot of people and talk to a lot of people that say, well, you know, I kind of understand what you're trying to say in terms of how you should eat, how you should move, how you should sleep. And it's, it all appears to be fairly straightforward, but implementing it in our modern society.

is incredibly difficult. You mentioned before, you know, that the cookie, if there wasn't a cookie, I wouldn't have to make the decision to not have it, right, or to not buy it. Uh, but because it's there, I'm in that kind of, you know, I'm forced to make a decision. And then, you know, you get into decision fatigue and anxiety and, and a lot of those, you Mental, um, issues at the end of the day that we all deal with that, that I think every human can deal with to a certain extent, but we seem to be overloaded with a lot of those things that, you know, we, we can't handle anymore.

And then we just, you know, the cork pops, so to say, and we, you know, we do stuff that we shouldn't be doing, or we yell, or we, you know, Don't do anything because we feel like there is nothing we can do it, you know, to, to do it. Right. Um, 

Ariel: yeah, so we're, we're both bombarded with a positive amount of information, you know, podcasts, talks like this, things that give us tools and techniques to overcome our bad urges and help us evolve.

And we're bombarded with negative information, you know. Cookies and crap advertisements and angry drivers and too many too much honking and all of the things and yes, it is Distracting and overwhelming to be a human at this point in time We are constantly being pulled by things that you know are not aligned with our natural state of being I don't really know what our natural state of being is, but it's definitely not being in the middle of of a traffic accident, you know, with cars going in all directions and your cell phone going at the same time.

Um, and advertisements everywhere. So yes, the pull for attention is devastating and it does lead to decision fatigue and emotional overwhelm and anxiety. And I think as You know, anxiety is something that's really basic to us. It's, it was good to have some fear. Um, it's good to think about the future and how things are going to play out.

But when we have so many variables now, we have so many things to worry about. And many of them are actually tuned to trying to make you anxious. to work very hard to pull on those emotional heartstrings or psychological strings to make you feel various ways. And so we are in a, in a modern condition, uh, that we've had to adapt to very, very quickly.

And we've done a poor job of it, not, not of our own fault, but because it's really overwhelming. 

Michael: So what is, what is the solution to that? To remove some of those factors proactively? Like, you know, I, a good example would be, you know, food at home. You know, we know that we only have food at home that our kids are allowed to have.

So we don't have to tell them, no, you cannot have the candy from the pantry, even though it's there. Why is it there? If you cannot have it, you know, not, we don't have it at home. So whatever they find, they can have, you know, and. I am very, I tend to be fairly radical with those things. I'm like, okay, whatever doesn't work.

If you're crying about the iPad, the iPad is gone, you know, as simple as that. Is that a solution or is there something do we, should we try to more mitigate rather than Avoid those issues. 

Ariel: So, uh, it's interesting. I also have the same food thing You know, my kids should only what we currently perceive as healthy food, right?

We don't really know what's healthy food, but in the current definition of healthy food, you know We're all trying to do this thing where we feed our kids whole foods and they don't have ultra processed foods and and and And occasionally, you know, my husband will bring in a bag of Cheetos and my son's like can I have some I'm like no and his literal answer the other day is Why is it there?

Michael: Right? 

Ariel: Like, you're absolutely right. Let's throw it 

Michael: out. 

Ariel: Um, so being able to remove as much as possible is important, but also some exposure is important because kids will then go out into the real world and find Cheetos on their own, and they'll need to have a model for how to deal with it when you do.

Michael: Right. 

Ariel: Um, so, um, There is going to be all of these dangers that we perceive, or that we have yet to perceive but are there, our children will eventually stumble into. And some amount of, uh, us safely exposing them, very safely when the time is right and the right thing, you know, Cheetos is pretty benign, porn is not great.

Please don't insult your children just for the sake of, you know, having a conversation around it. But, you know, being able to safely allow in the things that are not great so that you teach them how to deal with it and how to manage it is important. So, yes, um, setting by example, reducing the amount of expectation.

It's like, well, of course, if there's Cheetos in the house, you want to eat them. If you are allowed to watch your tablet for three hours a day, then you just feel like that's how life's supposed to be. 

Michael: Right. How 

Ariel: could you explain that it was any different? It's just, that's what you do naturally. Right. So, you know, managing and limiting the exposure and teaching both your children and yourselves I mean, we're talking about kids here, but really we're talking about us.

We all have the same problem with cheetos and tablets that our children do. We need to be the parent to ourselves and say hey, this is not a good behavior Let's be take Instagram off of our phone, you know, let's, let's actually remove these things. Um, if there is a reason to expose ourselves to them, like let's limit it and make choices.

And one of the best kind of tools and technologies that I've discovered for all of this self management is meditation, because it gives you the opportunity to observe yourself. Observe your urges, the desire to have the cookie, to reach for Facebook, whatever it is. And in meditation, your job is to not follow those urges, but to just sit there.

And it can feel incredibly torturous. You're like, I have a five minute meditation. All I got to do is sit for five minutes and three minutes. And you're like, I got to do something else. I just got to get up and stretch. I just, I just got to check my Facebook, but you're not allowed to. And you're sitting there watching your body's innate urges, um, try to pull you in the direction that you would normally follow if you were being mindless.

You weren't paying attention, you'd be like, okay, now I'm grabbing my Facebook. I'm doing these things. Cause that's, you're just on autopilot. You're just following your habits, but in the space of meditation, what you're forcing yourself to do or giving yourself the opportunity to do is to. Observe these interior urges and not follow them and train your body to say, Oh, I might have an urge for this thing, but Hey, was it actually important that I picked that up?

No, no. Is it actually important that I jumped at this thing? Actually? No, I just felt that way. And to begin to retrain and repattern yourself to make your own choices rather than being just, you know, pinging and reacting to your environment and your internal urges constantly. 

Michael: Right. That was a very good, I think probably the best explanation I've ever heard because a lot of people, you know, say, Oh, I'm going to meditate or they want to meditate, but I've yet for someone to really explain to me in language that a five year old could understand.

What is it? What does meditation really mean? And if I understood you correctly, it's on the one hand. Listening to what your body wants to respond to and then not responding. Being present at the end of the day, right? And, and not 

Ariel: Yep. Yeah. So the class, there's many different forms of meditation. And so meditation is the practice of choosing to sit down and do this.

So, um, in a focused attention on the breath meditation, your job in that five minutes is to focus your attention on your breath. Now, your mind is going to wander away from your breath onto thoughts, your body's going to want to go and run away, it's, you know, all these things are going to come up, and every time those things come up, instead of following them, you're going to say, that's not what I'm going to do, my job is just to sit here and focus my attention on my breath.

So your mind is going to wander, and you're going to be like, oh, right, I noticed it, and come on back, focus on your breath. In a body scan, you might be, you know, moving your attention around your body, and it's the same, you know, that's the job that you're doing, The meditating is the focusing on the one thing, 

Michael: and 

Ariel: then the distractions pop up and you're learning how to manage those distractions to bring your attention away from the distraction and back onto the object of your meditation.

Michael: Right. And even before I've even tried to meditate for the first time. I've, I've actually now in retrospect, I've, I've realized that I've been meditating in a way, uh, for quite some time because what I like to do, and I just actually did it before I, I got onto the podcast, I just sit outside in the backyard.

Um, you know, maybe close my eyes, usually take my shirt off if the sun is out and just You know, feel the sun on my skin, feel the grass, you know, on my skin. Um, listen to, you know, we have a bunch of animals with rabbits and chickens and geese and stuff and just be there and nowhere else, you know? And if my mind starts like, Oh, you know, next I have, you know, like, no, next we don't have anything.

You know, right now we have this and later we'll worry about everything else. And that's, I guess, based on what you just said, that's a form of meditation, isn't it? 

Ariel: One thousand percent. That is a perfectly described meditation. That's exactly it. You are here in the present moment. And so, what you're, you can meditate on your thoughts, your feelings, your sensations, the world around you, and you've just hit all of them.

So, you're feeling the sensation of the light on your chest, you're hearing the sounds around you, you're aware of what's in your mind, you're here in the present moment, because all of those sounds and feelings are only here and now. They're not in the past, they're not in the future. And when your mind wants to wander away to somewhere else, you say, Nope.

don't need to go there. I'm here in the present. 

Michael: Like 

Ariel: ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. That is meditation. That is what people have tried for, you know, try and try and try to do. 

Michael: Right. And so how does that then play into, you know, those deep states of meditation where you have certain brainwaves more active than others?

Um, is, is there a, I guess, is one meditation more effective than the other, depending on what's going on inside of your brain? 

Ariel: Sure, so there's, as I said, many forms to meditate. Typically, the first kind of meditation that people learn is the focused attention on the breath. Um, so, you know, focusing attention on the breath, mind wanders, come back.

As you do that, what you're learning to do is to stabilize your attention, and to be able to stay focused. day with the practice. And so your five minutes eventually grows to six minutes, 10 minutes, 20 minutes, 30 minutes. And, and as you do that, a number of incredibly important things happen in your mind and in your body.

So, um, one of the first things that happens is you notice that you've started to change your relationship to your thoughts and feelings. So in the past you might've had a thought that was like, Oh, I'm an awful person. Or you might've had a thought of like, you know, Oh, I need to check Facebook now. Well, now that you have, uh, done this practice of learning to observe your mind and body, um, and not follow those thoughts, all of a sudden you realize that you can actually have control over your mental space.

Michael: Mm hmm. 

Ariel: Um, that you don't need to be thinking these thoughts that you habitually think. And so you start to, you know, clean or prune the contents of your own mind. 

Michael: Right. 

Ariel: Um, and, and also the focus of your day and the things that you want to do. And the longer you sit in this state, kind of, the deeper you become.

And, it, it varies from person to person. You know, it takes several years to build a super deep meditation practice that's going to, Um, you know, get you into extraordinarily deep states. But even a quick five minute practice that you do daily for six weeks, you are going to feel a massive shift in your life because you're beginning to take control of your mental space.

You're telling your brain that it's okay to quiet those voices. You're gonna find more calm in your life, and you'll also notice a shift in your brain waves. So, uh, I mean, you won't notice, but if you happen to put an EG on your head, you would notice that, 

Michael: right? 

Ariel: Um, so in a study that we did with Muse, we had people do six weeks of Muse meditation.

Um, in that case, it was for 20 minutes a day. And at the end of those six weeks, their brain showed a persistent shift in its activity. so that it represented more alpha activity throughout the day. So they were in more of a calm, focused, stable attention state, uh, throughout the day than prior to starting the practice and different than a controlled route.

So it really, in a short period of time makes real change in the brain. 

Michael: Right. The big challenge with meditation, I think, for many people is that it's, it's not something that you can do just, oh, I'll do it while eating or while watching TV. No, you have to do exactly the opposite. You have to take time out of your day to do nothing, right?

That's incredibly challenging for a lot of people. 

Ariel: So let me, let me reframe. It's not time out of your day to do nothing. It's time out of your day to become a better person. It's like the time you'd go to the gym. 

Michael: Right. And, and that's, that's a very good point because, you know, obviously everyone understands, you know, if I go to the gym, you know, I make progress, I might lose weight, I become fitter, you know, cardiovascular risk goes down, whatever the case might be.

And to do it, it's very easy to kind of, you know, especially if you look in the mirror, you'll see the progress. With meditation, looking in the mirror, you might not immediately see, maybe a little, you know, fewer wrinkles or whatever, if you're less stressed. Um, but it's really something that you, that you feel, you feel the difference rather than seeing it.

Right. And I've noticed that with a lot of people, they don't really know how they feel because they are not in tune. They, they never listen to what their body and mind are trying to tell them. Right. So do you have to first learn how to feel? Before you can feel the difference that meditation makes, or is that part of the process where you start feeling as you become more proficient meditating?

Ariel: Just half a second. My child is hollering for me. Um, so let me just respond to him. One sec. 

Michael: All right. 

Ariel: Hi, I'm back. 

Michael: All right. 

Ariel: So the good news is with the meditation practice, it is actually teaching you how to do that. So in those 5, 10, 20 minutes, you're sitting there and you're observing yourself. And through the process of observing yourself, you're observing your thoughts.

You're observing your emotions, you're observing your tendencies, um, and you literally are building the skill of self awareness and emotional self awareness through the process of meditation. So it's, it's very self reinforcing. 

Michael: All right, and you know, this example right now, I would have, I would bet that 99.

5 percent of the population, you know, if they're on a podcast and the kid interrupts, they would say, be quiet, I'm on a podcast, I can't talk right now. Um, but you handle it differently. So I guess your, your, your, your fight or flight response did not kick in at this particular moment. You chose to handle it differently.

And I assume that's probably a, you know, you know, how you would have maybe responded. I don't know. Many, many, many years ago, before you had the knowledge and the expertise and the, I guess, the practice that you did have, but that was a very good example because I know in the past when the kids are loud, you know, I'm on a recording a video or doing a podcast and I get angry, you know, I might not yell, but I get angry inside.

Um, And I'm like, there is not really any need there. I am not in a life, you know, threatening situation right now. There is no saber toothed tiger trying to, you know, attack me and yet I'm responding in the same way as if it would, you know. 

Ariel: Yep, so it, thank you for noticing that. It really is the meditation practice.

So I heard him yell that he needed me and I sort of heard it out of the corner, you know, mom ears. Um, and there wasn't a sense of anxiety. There wasn't a sense of of, uh, frustration at it. It's just like, this is someone that needs me. One moment, you know, check in. He then, you know, followed on with something that, that he really didn't need to ask me about at this moment in time after the first communication, but that's fine.

You know, patiently communicate to him and then come on back. 

Michael: Um, 

Ariel: and honestly checking in on it. Yeah. It felt very easy and fluid. It really is. Um, What they say about meditation, it helps you learn to respond rather than react. So, you know, in the past, the feeling would drive the reaction. Um, then as you meditate a little bit, you get the feeling, but you can still like stop yourself and make a little bit of space.

You might feel that sense of, you know, anger arising. You're like, okay, I'm not going to deal in that way. And then take a breath and respond. And then over time, there was not even the sensation of anger arising. There was not the sensation of frustration or fear or anything. It was just like, This is what's happening.

Okay, deal with that. Come on back. 

Michael: So, I mean, it almost seems like that, you know, that the solution to most of world's problems would be very, you know, just meditation. I do 

Ariel: believe so, Tim. Um, it would be very, very helpful. I mean, the world's problems are vast. Um, uh, it's naive to say that simply meditating would, would happen, but I actually truly believe that if everybody really, really could sit with themselves, have self knowledge, you know, move into a deeper space, be able to have full compassion for one another.

The selflessness that comes over time with meditation, the awareness, the wisdom. If we're all actually able to do that, like, you know, all the 7 billion plus people on the planet, we'd be in an extraordinary place. We would not be having the wars that we have. And unfortunately, people's ego and drive, uh, It pushes them often to, to damage whole other nations.

It's incredibly sad. 

Michael: Yeah. And I don't 

Ariel: think meditation is going to, you know, save, save Putin. Um. Um. Some people are pretty far gone and have their own views of the world, which are, you know, not so simple to shift with a little practice like meditation, but man, 

Michael: I wish 

Ariel: everybody meditated. 

Michael: Yeah, and you know, I don't really, I mean, I try to control, you know, the three feet that I have control over, um, and not necessarily, you know, what's happening on city, state, you know, federal, whatever level, worldwide level.

But even within the realm of our family, you know, just being able to not be reactive in particular in the context of parenting or even, you know, between my wife and I, you know, when she says something that I don't like or perceive in the wrong, whatever, you know, the case might be just being able to not respond, how I would normally respond is incredibly powerful, um, and would make life overall so much easier.

And if I think then if, you know, if, if our family, you know, is functioning even better than it is. You know, and, and then our neighborhood and, you know, it kind of, you know, it's a bottom up approach, I think, but you have to work, I think, on yourself first to, uh, before you can expect, you know, a world leader to, to change or change their views.

Um, now, I mean, I, I think we all get the idea. Meditation is great. Um, what are some of the tools that can help you? Get started, um, and, and especially tools that can help you understand if what you're doing is going in the right direction. And I'm, of course, I'm asking about, you know, the headband that I've been testing and using, um, how does that help?

What does it do? Uh, tell us a little bit about Muse and how it can help get to a better place, uh, from a meditation perspective and sleep as well, of course, because they are very much connected, I think. 

Ariel: Awesome. So yes, we built Muse. This is Muse. We have two different versions of it. We built Muse to solve the problem of sleep.

What is happening during my brain, uh, in meditation, and am I doing this right? Um, so what Muse does is it gives you real time feedback on your brain while you meditate. It slips on just like a pair of glasses, and it has sensors on your forehead and behind your ears. And it tracks your brain activity during your meditation.

So it's an EEG? 

Michael: It's 

Ariel: an EEG, yeah. So the same thing that you have in a clinic or a hospital, this is actually a dry sensor, clinical grade EEG. It's Also widely used in research, over 200 papers published in it, even a couple of publications in Nature, so like, very good science. 

Michael: Um, 

Ariel: and as a meditation tool, what it does is it translates your brain activity into guiding sounds.

So when your mind is wandering, distracted, you hear it as stormy, and as you bring your mind to quiet, focused attention on your breath, it quiets the storm. So it's actually giving you real time feedback on your meditation, letting you know when your mind is wandering, and it's like, okay, your mind's wandering, um, and then it cues you to bring yourself back to focused attention, it reinforces you for staying there, and then afterwards you get data.

charts, graphs, scores, things that actually show you what your brain was doing and show you the improvement that you're making week after week. 

Michael: Have you seen that listening to the biofeedback during the meditation is distracting to some users? Like they're trying to kind of, you know, score high. And it kind of defeats the purpose of them being relaxed and in the moment.

Have you seen that? 

Ariel: So that's part of the lesson. So, so in our lives, we're going to have noisy brains. We're going to have, you know, cars and kids and all the things that are distracting. And what you need to learn is to be able to sit with what is happening and be there and be present to that experience.

Michael: Right. 

Ariel: And that sensation of striving or the frustration that, Oh no, it's so noisy. Well, if in life, you know, the, the, the, Kids are being loud and you're your only sensation is oh, no, they're being too loud and you're getting angry about it That's not meditation. That's right So for most people, you know, the sound is very guiding for those people for whom the sound becomes overwhelming That in and of itself is a meditation lesson to shift how you sit with it and over time people People really get it and that lesson kind of goes like oh, oh, that's what I'm supposed to be doing When I'm just quiet and calm and not frustrated by the sound then I move forward and then life gets better.

And so that's the, like the, one of the deepest lessons that you learn from it. 

Michael: Gotcha. And so if you were to, to, to guesstimate, or maybe there are even studies, um, how much does Muse help, uh, in terms of getting proof or becoming more proficient with meditation? 

Ariel: Sure. So, um, there's a few hundred thousand people around the world who've begun or enhanced their meditation practice with Muse, like several hundred thousand.

Um, and we frequently hear from people, I tried to meditate before, but you know, it was only once I started Muse that I was able to do so. Um, and in, from a study perspective, there are, so Mayo Clinic has done multiple studies with Muse in various conditions. Um, one with breast cancer patients awaiting surgery, and they were able to improve their quality of life, um, uh, and decrease their stress and fatigue.

Another one, they gave it to their own doctors, and their doctors were able to improve their burnout, um, and actually start and use a meditation practice. That's one of the issues when you're a doctor, you're way too busy, and like, how do you fit a meditation practice into your day? And so, you know, one of the outcomes there was not only did they have a reduction in burnout, improvement in cognitive function, um, and a decrease in stress, they also manage to start and maintain a meditation practice.

Michael: Right. All right. Um, so if someone listening to this podcast or watching it says, okay, I wanna start meditating somehow. What do you think should be the very first step? Should they be starting today? Tomorrow? Very soon? And what should they be doing? 

Ariel: Start today! Motivation and inspiration are like, you know, very key currencies.

If you feel the slightest sensation of motivation and inspiration, jump on it, ride with it. Um, the easiest way to meditate is to set yourself a timer. You can do it on your phone. Uh, set it for three minutes, two minutes, doesn't matter, short period of time, and you'll feel successful and just pay attention to your breath.

So you're going to feel your breath. I've done this before. your nose, or you'll feel the rise and fall of your chest. Um, you may have a whole bunch of thoughts pop up like this is totally stupid. What am I doing? This is weird. I don't like it. That's okay. Totally normal. You let your mind go away from those thoughts.

You're like, thanks. Your thoughts come on back to my breath. Um, thanks for your thoughts. Come on back to my breath. And if you do that for two minutes, you have just successfully meditated. Even if you had a whole storm of garbage in your mind, the whole time, you are aware of the storm of garbage, um, and you chose to continue to sit there, start your meditation practice.

Um, and the next thing you want to do is come back to it regularly. So, you know, try to do it for if it's two minutes every day, it's your two minutes, five minutes, you know, put it in your calendar, choose a time in your day to do it, um, And over time you will find it's enjoyable. And if you need extra help or support, of course, um, there are cool tools and devices like Muse that actually give you real time feedback on what you're supposed to be doing and help you really start and like hone your practice quickly.

Michael: Yeah. And I think with the Muse app, you also get a ton of guided and unguided sessions. And I've really noticed in the beginning. Uh, going through those guided sessions where someone tells you what you're supposed to be doing and feeling kind of, not really how you're supposed to feel, but you know, you know, the breath rhythm and in all of those things that kind of are, might be completely unnatural and foreign to you.

Uh, it really helps to go through that with someone, even if that someone is only, you know, on an audio recording to kind of help you, um, get going and, uh, and figure out how it's to feel right. Yes. Um, is there a best time of the day, you know, first thing in the morning, last thing before going to bed? Does it matter whenever you have time?

What have you seen as? 

Ariel: And so the best time of day is whenever it is good for you. You know, there's no magic to meditating early in the morning or before bed. The magic is the time that you actually feel it. feel you'll do it. So if you're a morning person, awesome. Try it in the morning. Um, if you want it as a break, when you come home at the end of the day, if the only time you get a break is, you know, once all the kids are in bed and the kitchen is clean and all the stuff is done, then don't let yourself go to bed until you do your five minutes of meditation.

Michael: Right. 

Ariel: It helps to choose the same time every day so that it becomes a routine, like brushing your teeth or having lunch. 

Michael: Right. And I suppose there is probably an immediate effect, like, you know, maybe your HRV goes up, you're, you know, you're getting out of sympathetic mode right after you've meditated.

But the long term goal, I think, should really be that you remain in a certain state and don't let yourself get into that fight or flight mode unless, of course, you know, there is an actual saber toothed tiger trying to attack you. Um, and that really is a follow up question to that. Is there any, does meditating prevent you from getting into fight or flight mode when it's necessary or does it like delay your response in a situation where it would be appropriate to?

You know, run for your life or fight. 

Ariel: That's a great question. So, uh, there is no evidence that shows that meditation dulls your ability to actually react when you need to. I mean, if you think about, uh, like a, a ninja warrior, Shaolin monk, you know, all of these people who, have deep, deep training in meditation practices.

I mean, this is where a lot of the meditation arts come from, martial arts practices. These are people who can react with incredible precision and speed exactly when needed to, but they don't have the fear reaction that gets you all flustered and gets in your way. 

Michael: Make sense. All right. Cool. Well, that was a lot of, uh, very, very good information.

I much appreciate your time. We're going to link down below in the show notes, you know, my review of Muse and more information about the device, because I think it's really helpful if you're new to meditation. to get some help, get some guidance, and to get, you know, that biofeedback you were mentioning, so you know that what you're doing is, is right, and you're improving.

I mean, at some point you'll probably feel it once you become more proficient, but in particular in the beginning, I think it's a great gadget to have to reflect, you know, on what's going on in your brain. And if that matches what you feel is going on. 

Ariel: Yeah. And even if you're an experienced meditator, so what we've found is it really grows as you do.

So as an experienced meditator, you know, you're a consciousness explorer. Your job is to observe your mind and to have something that actually shows you a mirror of your mind that gives you a new way to have inquiry into it and to track it and engage with it is incredibly powerful. 

Michael: All right. Makes a lot of sense.

All right, Ariel, I thank you so much for your time. Uh, it was great having you on the show. Um, is there anything else you want to mention where people can find you? Um, what they should, you know, maybe resources you want to point out, um, anything that we can put in the show notes? 

Ariel: Sure. So you can find, uh, find us at choosemuse.

com and on all the socials at at choosemuse, C H O O S E M U S E. Um, and, On the website on Choose Muse, you can, you know, you can see a picture of what we're talking about. You can see, uh, lots of resources and links, the studies that we discussed, um, and learn more about meditation and sleep. We, we spent the whole time talking about meditation, but we forgot to really dive into the other important mental health tool, which is sleep, which helps your self regulation, um, your ability to react, uh, More effectively to have improved sports performance, et cetera.

So that's, you know, the other side of what we care very deeply about. And we create tools that help you sleep better, um, and track your sleep as efficient as effectively as a sleep lab would. 

Michael: Maybe we should do another session, then another episode where we talk specifically about sleep since we covered the meditation aspect now.

All right. Cool. Well, thanks Arielle. Appreciate it. And, um, I let you know once the show goes live. 

Ariel: Wonderful. So nice to be with all of you. 

Michael: Thanks. Bye. In 

Extra: the next episode of the Primal Shift podcast, we explore how testosterone impacts the ability to take on difficult tasks, whether it's stepping into a cold plunge, pushing through a tough workout, or making lifestyle changes.

Research and personal experiments reveal that as testosterone levels rise, So does the capacity to endure pain and discomfort. This effect is even observed in animals like rams, whose testosterone spikes during mating season, allowing them to withstand intense battles. For humans, higher levels don't lead to aggression but make it easier to push through challenges.

If struggling with hard tasks, it might be worth checking where your testosterone levels stand. Tune in for a deeper dive into this connection.