66: Is Your Relationship Holding You Back from Better Health? | Chris Bates

66: Is Your Relationship Holding You Back from Better Health?

Michael Kummer: So Bates, do you feel like we're living in a simulation? Like everything appears to be either bullshit that we hear, um, entirely the opposite of what we should be doing? Be it food, be it, I mean, I just come to the recent realization that pretty much all of the food in the grocery store sucks, period. I mean, it doesn't matter if it's organic or grass fed.

There's always a wrinkle to it because it, the government makes it incredibly possible, it makes it impossible almost for farmers to grow good food. And that's just one of the examples. You know, you can't really trust anything you hear on the news. It almost feels like, you know, we are in a matrix, you know, and is it worth living in a matrix?

What is your take on that? 

Bates: You know, I, I think that truth will always be stranger than fiction and therefore it will always be much more hilarious than fiction. So I, I don't know if we're in the matrix or not, but I can tell you that, um, it's almost empowering to think that if we are, I'm probably neo.

You've seen them, 

Michael Kummer: right? 

Bates: Yeah. It's like, so I think everyone should have, what do they call it? The main character vibes. Everyone should have the swagger of a main character and realize even if we are in the matrix and even everything is. Wild or deceptive. It's you have the power to change your life and probably the people around you who noticed that you stand out because of that.

And so I don't know, maybe, maybe this is me being overly optimistic, but I kind of like it because if, if it was, if it wasn't so hilarious, it wouldn't be so obvious and then we would probably all succumb to it unknowingly, 

Michael Kummer: right? 

Bates: A lot of people have waken up because it's just going too far. So I actually like that.

It's ridiculous because a lot more people are waking up. Then, then if it was, uh, incarnate, 

Michael Kummer: right. But do you feel it's going to lead at some point to like, you know, like an underground resistance, kind of like in terminator where we have to fight, you know, whatever the machines are going to be, you know, if that's government or, you know, what have you, because I kind of feel like, you know, I've always laughed at people who, you know, are way out there, but I'm like, I'm getting there, you know, and it's and I don't and I'm not afraid of it You know and of admitting it that I'm willing to do things differently because whatever is going on be it You know real or otherwise It's it's all bullshit, you know And we have the power to do something about him to make you know I'll work the way we wanna you know, have it and and so are you part of the resistance?

Bates: I think you know it comes down to it When, when action would need to be made, I would say, yeah, I'd consider myself part, I'm, I'm ready to be 

Michael Kummer: part of the resistance. All right. Cool.

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All right, Bates, thanks for coming back on the show. Uh, much appreciated. We talked. Couple of months ago. I think it was and uh today specifically.

Um, I want to talk to you about Relationships and now this is not a dating, you know show or anything But sorry with you know, changing your lifestyle right with trying to be better You're bound to run into issues if the other half of that relationship, and it might not be your spouse or girlfriend or boyfriend It might be your, you know, your, your parents, you know, that doesn't really, you know see eye to eye and has a different opinion on how you should be eating and sleeping and, and, and doing things and, you know There is bound to be friction and so I know that you're very much into, into relationship coaching as well and, and trying to You know, help couples and people in general, uh, to navigate that.

And so, you know, thanks for coming back and I'm excited to hear what you have to say. 

Bates: Yeah, it's great to be back. It's, you know, I'm seeing you in person at Hack Your Health this year and KetoCon last year has been a lot of fun too. So I always enjoy chatting and I think this relationship, relationship aspect of health is something we don't hear about a lot because there's not a lot of finite metrics or studies or influencers or just ideas floating around on it.

But it is something that has an evolutionary twist to it. So I think it's good to revisit, especially in the modern day. Cause there's different challenges now that really do put a lot of pressure on relationships. 

Michael Kummer: Yeah. Yeah. And you know, just to set the stage, I've alluded it, I've alluded to it in, in previous episodes and throughout, you know, uh, my, my sharing of information, but when I decided to go paleo 10 or so years ago, It put our relationship at the brink of, you know, not making it, uh, because my wife at the time had a very different opinion, or at least, you know, she had no desire whatsoever to make dramatic changes to our dietary lifestyle, and I proposed basically cutting out entire food groups, you know, starting today.

Um, you know, without any warning, without any explanation, just saying that, you know, if we continue down this road, we're gonna die a painful death, so we have to change now, you know, um, and that was too much for her, you know, and obviously the way I approached it wasn't necessarily the best way of approaching it, but even if you do it in a more nuanced It can be difficult because we all have different opinions, right?

We have different backgrounds, different cultures, or especially in the case of my wife and I, you know, she's Costa Rican, you know, grew up on rice and beans, you know, um, I grew up on potatoes, you know, and, uh, and, and then going paleo, you know, I mean, that's so far away from, from anything that, uh, we, we had known until this point.

So what is your, um, what do you see out there, you know, in terms of Because you said it before, you know, nobody ever talks about relationship. He's like, okay, eat this, eat that, sleep like this, you know, do red light therapy, cold blunting, sauna bathing, whatever the case might be. But yeah, if you're alone, it's easy, right?

You can do whatever you want to, but as soon as there are other people involved, be it, you know, spouse, parents. Children, for that matter, it becomes tricky. Um, what is your, uh, what have you seen out there? And, uh, and some of the, you know, mistakes people make and, uh, maybe things, you know, that they should be doing instead.

Bates: You know, there's a really interesting theme, not just behind diet and lifestyle, but just interacting with people in general, whether that's romantic relationships or friendships, or even, um, you know, familial relations, where people often sacrifice their desires. To accommodate for the people around them.

And I think that's a, it's over agreeableness and it comes from a place where it seems like they're accommodating and that they're being considerate. But the reality is the more that you sacrifice your desires, and that could be health, then the more resentment you build up over time and the more that I think it taints the relationship.

So I have found personally from doing it very poorly and then holding my ground a little more. That my relationships are much more stable, not necessarily where, when I am being, uh, like projecting my beliefs on other people, but rather when I am setting boundaries for what I want to do with my life, my routine, my time, my diet habits.

My, my lifestyle and people respect that as long as you don't go too far and imply or push that your standards should be their standards too. And so I think that's a sweet spot and you could probably zoom out of that idea. Anything else outside of. Um, and, and somebody sees something one way and you see it the other, I think the, the best way, not that your idea is to convert them, but the, the best way to leave an impression is to just do what you believe is best and if it's something that they're open minded to, sometimes over time, people will try it out on their own because you've influenced them in a positive way and because they can kind of, um, witness you.

Living your life or following these principles. And so, I mean, that was a state with not only my current girlfriend, but my ex wife. Um, I didn't really push it on either of them. But they saw who I was working with, how it changed my health, my demeanor, all kinds of things. And so it, it, it planted the seed, even though we don't eat those necessarily all the time, you know, it's good mentally.

And so that was, that was a big, that was a big thing for, uh, a lot of friendships and romantic relationships. I see that with my clients too. 

Michael Kummer: So, I mean, I can see this to be easier with friends. You know, we have friends, for example, um, We have a bunch of friends that do things differently in several aspects of our lives, not just, you know, diet, but, you know, religion, political views, whatever the case might be, right?

And we all happily co exist because, you know, we say, okay, this is what we do and how we see things, but I respect the way, you know, you do things as well. And since we are not on top of each other 24 7, That is fairly easy to do because we only see them, I don't know, once every two weeks or whatever, you know, maybe three times a week in the gym, whatever the case might be, you know, depending on the type of friendship.

But then with your spouse, especially if you live with your spouse, you know, especially if you're I guess married where you, I don't want to, you know, use the wrong word, but kind of like locked in so you don't, you know, have the freedom of saying, um, well, you know, didn't work out, you know, I mean you do, but it's a little bit more involved and, and when, when kids are involved, it's even more involved, right?

Because there is ideally, you know, You made a promise at a certain point, right? And you don't want to just break this because your wife, you know, likes broccoli and you don't, right? But it becomes a little bit more complicated because especially in our case, you know My wife was the one preparing the meals, right?

If I so I me saying I do paleo means, well, I want you to cook differently for me or I cook myself and for my wife, you know, Preparing food for her family is a cultural aspect, you know, an important cultural aspect, you know, providing for a family by cooking Right much like, you know, I'm I'm providing by, you know Bringing the dough in and she then make something out of the, you know, dough And so taking that away from her in itself was an issue So even if I would have said and I did I think you know, hey, i'm just gonna you know, cook, you know my meals She like well, you know, you're taking something away from me.

That is my responsibility and my desire to do Um, but at the same time i'm also not one. I don't want to you know, cook twice You know once for us and once for you. So I I guess the closer you are the more um The more ingrained, I guess, that relationship is, the more complicated it can get. Would you agree?

Bates: I would, I would agree. And when I think about the situations I've been in, as well as the situations I've had clients in, Um, I'll, when kids are part of it, when there's a family, a family group outside of just, you know, a man and a woman, then typically they do need to be on the same page because of the reasons that you stated.

So it is, so when you're in the early stages of a relationship or you're married. But there's just the two of you. You do have a little more flexibility to, you know, have, be in the same house and be around each other a lot and eat differently, but then the question that kind of spins off of that as well, if, if they really believe in you, the man's ability to.

Make decisions and lead. If you're like, wow, we need to go paleo right now. I think that's best for our health that I think, you know, they would be like, you know what, let's at least try this. Let's entertain this. Right. So at least if that's your inkling and you can experiment on that together, I think that says a lot about your, your relationship with somebody, but the problem we have in modernity.

And you see, is that a lot of times, you know, women and men are trying to fill the same roles, because women have experienced men who did not necessarily provide or have this sense of safety to offer. And so then women feel like they need to step into that role. You have, instead of being partnership where you're feeling each other's weaknesses, or that you're, complimentary, your butting heads tried to achieve the same thing.

And so I think, I think it's not only just about diet and lifestyle, it's more about the principle of how do we make decisions as a unit? 

Michael Kummer: Yes. Yeah. That's, that's a very good point because I've obviously, you know, a lot of. Relationships these days between, you know, a man and a woman, you know, both want to, you know, you know, make career, you know, earn money.

Um, you know, people have power, I guess, what it is at the end of the day. And that is in my opinion, at least not consistent from an ancestral perspective, you know, because women's weren't the ones, you know, going out fighting saber toothed tigers, you know, those, that's what a man's job, you know, um, and, and so if you, If you deviate from that, what I consider in an ancestral principle of, of a, you know, family setting, then it becomes even more complicated, right?

Because who is making, who is, who is calling the shots at the end of the day when it comes to certain things that are, you know, that one might consider life preserving or at least health preserving. Right. Um, so something existential at the end of the day. Um, and, and then it becomes incredibly, uh, complicated.

So I'm very grateful that Kathy, you know, without me saying anything or alluding to it, in fact, when we met, I did not have, The same point of view from a, you know, how a family should work that I have now. We've kind of grown into this even more so as we have embraced, you know, more ancestor concepts in life in general.

But from the beginning, she said, I want to stay home and, you know, take care of the kids and, you know, run the household and cook for y'all, you know? Um, and I was very grateful about that because that was kind of, you know, I think in the back of my head, my ideal, but I, you know, at that point I was young, I wasn't really sure I said, Am I am I Okay.

Thinking like this, or is this incorrect? Am I, we are, you know, are we supposed to be all equals and, you know, everyone does the same thing. Um, and fortunately, you know, I have, uh, formed an opinion on that and, and stand behind it. But, um, so it kind of fell into place where very well, um, which I think allowed us to evolve together in, in kind of that spirit, but I can see that if you're from the get go.

Like competing, you know, for who brings home, you know, more money, then it's going to get, it's going to get challenging. 

Bates: Yeah. And I think too, because, so I don't have children. I don't, I don't live in, on a homestead, uh, yet. And I'm in the middle of Austin, Texas, you know, so very much a metropolitan area with a lot of the modern issues you would see not only for health, but for dating.

And so what I've noticed here is a lot of, Men and women feel like before they can get in a healthy relationship, they have to build a certain amount of wealth or establish themselves or have a certain amount of evergreen income and, and, and things like that. And so not just for women, but men and women that creates this.

I have to achieve this first, then I can work on having a healthy relationship. I, and I don't think it works that way. It's like in the other skill, if you walk into the gym and you expect to deadlift 500 pounds without ever dead lifting before, it's not going to go well. So I think people can build, uh, wealth and stability and skills while they're dating and, and experiencing these relationships.

And the reason I'm bringing that up is because, um, if someone is wants to have a family one day. In modernity, we have these extra hoops to jump through, compared to, you know, evolutionarily. And one of those hoops is treating everything as a season. So, right now, in a metropolitan area, a guy who's my age, who has been married, divorced, relocated, working on a career, I don't expect, you know, the women that I've, that I dated or my clients to date, To go on a first date with a guy, be like, all right, I'm okay.

Staying at home. Like that's, you have to build this rapport and this security. And then this almost this contract of long visioning yourselves together in the long run, in order to, for them to feel safe enough to, to take on that role is what I've noticed. And maybe there is a time where you both are going out.

And, and breadwinning, but then, then you establish a person, each role, when it is time to have children or move out of the city. And so I think that's like the, the caveat to this idea is because generally I align with you with, with how I believe, but I think. The ti the reality of the modern world is the timeline's a little different.

Mm-Hmm. . And so there might be some extra seasons until you can get to that point. 

Michael Kummer: Right. You know, speaking of, I mean, uh, our, I guess the way we see health and wellness is a niche, you know, it's a growing niche, fortunately, but it's still, I mean, we are not in the maturity. You know, going to bed early, you know, eating, you know, well, and, and doing all those things.

And I can only imagine, I mean, I've been out of the dating world for, uh, for a long time, but I can only imagine going out there. I mean, finding someone who is somewhat aligned is going to be incredibly difficult. You know, I mean, what is your, I mean, you, you've been, you have a girlfriend right now, I understand.

But when, how did you, you know, how did he meet someone, you know, who is somewhat, at least not on the same page, but at least in the same book as you are, you know, 

Bates: I, it, it was a process. I, and this is actually what I help men do now. And this is what I'm, I'm writing a book about is I actually had to define a set of guidelines Um, and the search essentially for a woman, because it's, there's so many, it's almost disorienting, not only with the amount of like people you meet, but the types of perspectives and non negotiables each person has, it can be really disorienting because you're exposed to a lot of things you've never heard of before, and you have to have an opinion on it or kind of have this, uh, vision of, okay, if this unfolds, what will that look like?

And so. Cool. It essentially, if I boiled it down, I had to establish non negotiables for myself, but I still had to, I had to have conviction behind those, but enough openness to learn about what other people's desires were. And then I just had to get a lot of repetitions that I had to approach a lot of women in public.

I had to go on the apps and basically I probably asked, I don't know, over the course of 12 months, I probably asked, three to 400 women out probably went on, I went on 54 first dates. Out of those 54 first dates, I actually dated one girl. I went on a few second dates and then I dated the girl that I'm dating now for over two years.

But if you, you know, that's a lot of effort and I don't know how many women I interacted with, but I know I went on 54 first dates. And so that's, it takes a lot of looking and it's partially for the reasons you're talking about. You know, do they believe. The same that I do when it comes to the importance of raising children, too.

prioritizing our health. Um, and then, you know, there's, there's politics and other things that are very, uh, polarizing. And then you have to kind of figure out early on. And then it's like, okay, this whole thing we're talking about, well, what's your opinion on these roles? Like, what do you want now? What are you open to wanting?

Right. Things change after this season. And so it was like an intense interview process, almost. I still made it fun. I still had a lot of fun. And I made a lot of friends and I learned a lot about myself. But it was, you had to kind of balance with like making it a fun experience, but also asking very real questions and then toggling between the two.

But that in itself was a skill. Toggling was a skill I did not have before this. And after that year, I felt like I was a lot better at having one on one conversations. There's a lot of other silver linings to having to go on so many dates, but a lot of the time, the, the, there was just not, there's so many misalignments.

Michael Kummer: It 

Bates: came down to belief systems and fundamentals. Um, and, and so that was what really rolled people out the grand majority of the time. And probably me for them too, 

Michael Kummer: right? It wasn't a one way street. Right. Uh huh. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I mean, I, I, I cannot even imagine. I mean, just looking, you know, walking around and then just, you know, looking at other people, you know, and, and, and kind of, you know, putting them into a, um, into a draw, like immediately, would you be a, you know, a friend or whatever, you know, somewhat compatible to me and 99.

9 percent would be an immediate no, you know, but also because You know, and that's the challenge of people are not necessarily or intentionally On the on on another page, right? They just don't know I mean if you think back at what we didn't know just 10 years ago or even, you know, a few years ago, um, you know, thinking about, you know, plastic food storage containers, you know, I mean, it, it wasn't, you know, 50 years ago that I discovered that they are bad for our health, right?

It was fairly recently. And so you cannot really blame people for not knowing what they don't know. Right. And having to go through that learning process, the problem that I see. is that most people are not willing to learn and not willing to open their eyes to potential issues because they just don't care, right?

Uh, they are comfortable the way they are, and they don't want to make any changes. And that's one of the things that that would be a hard no, you know, for me immediately, if you're not willing to, you know, see new information. And, and act, you know, accordingly, you know, if necessary. 

Bates: And, and I think that's a really good point because when I was going on all those first dates, I wasn't necessarily wanting someone who agreed with me on everything.

I wanted someone who knew what they wanted in that moment, but was open to being influenced. Uh, and, and I tried to be that way too. Like I have my opinions on things. That's I was open to learning and 

Michael Kummer: being 

Bates: wrong. And I've evolved since then, like even since I've been dating the same woman. She'll tell you, I've grown a lot, I've changed my opinion on a lot of things.

And so I think, I think that's what you're really looking for is, you is detecting curiosity and openness, but also just the ability to have problem solving skills because the information is very turbulent and it's very, and it's ever changing, ever morphing. So you want somebody who can roll with the punches as opposed to be set in their ways, like you're talking about.

Michael Kummer: Yeah. And I guess the older you get, the more you are set in your ways. Um, at least, I mean, I've noticed it with, you know, just with my own behavior, you know, sometimes I sound like an angry, you know, grandpa, you know, and 

Bates: I want your kids to get off your lawn. 

Michael Kummer: So, so, you know, going, you know, zooming out a little bit from romantic relationships, because, you know, those are not the only, uh, friction points.

Obviously they are, you know, parents, there are coworkers, whatever. How do you handle A situations where relationships where, you know, you're, Entirely on the, you know, one would think that factual information is fairly easy to, I mean, there is no point of view, you know, I mean, if you, you know, if someone says the earth is round, the other one says the earth is flat, one's got to be wrong.

Right. And by now we should have figured out on most of those topics, you know, who is right and who is wrong, what is factual information, but I feel like these days figuring out what actually factual and what is not has become incredibly difficult, which is why it's possible that we have such, you know, someone says, Oh, you know, vegan is the best.

The other ones are carnivore. How is it possible? You know, that we have such diverging opinions and believe in, in, in different facts, um, if there is supposed to be only one, Truth, right? Mm-Hmm, . Um, how do you handle this? Let's say, you know, if a coworker or a parent or what have you, and, you know, and that person says, you know, cows are terrible for the planet, we have to stop eating meat.

You know, and, and you know that, you know, it's bullshit, you know, and you know the information why is bullshit? But that, I guess the deeper, the deeper you dig, you know, on, on, on what you think is true, the more you ought figure out that. You can't really be a hundred percent certain because you always rely on information that you get from someone else, right?

Be it a scientist, be it a study, be it, you know, your echo chamber, whatever you can, you can never be a hundred percent certain in many of those things because you're not the one having conducted that research, you know, or having seen it with your own eyes, et cetera. How do you go about that? 

Bates: It's, it's funny you ask, because this is essentially what I talked about at Hack Your Health, what I spoke about for an hour.

was how I realized this at a pretty young age. I was probably 18 and I was like, wow, I don't know. You know, there's a million ways to skin a cat. Allegedly there's all these anecdotes and studies. I would rather just learn firsthand and see how I feel and compare and contrast and then when you get other metrics, right, like HRV, sleep quality, hormone panels, other kinds of blood draws, DEXA scan, uh, your workout lifts your, your performance, athletic output, and then you can cross reference it with all these, these different experiments you tried.

That's essentially what got me to where I am today. Why I worked at Heart and Soil, and why I left to start my own business. So I just started experimenting because I believe that first hand knowledge was the best way for me to get closest to the truth. And so I've always encouraged people to do that.

The caveat though, which is what you're saying is, I do have conviction. I have belief. But I also realize that my set of circumstances is not the same as

So I just let it go instead of trying to convince them when I was younger, I used to try to convince everyone, everything, because I thought I was right about now. I realized that there's infinite nuance. And I do think that people are more likely to let us imprint on them. When we don't try to combat them.

Yeah. So I just, I, I say what I believe and I, and I ask questions about what they believe and then I leave it. And I know that if I continue to live my life and years later, they see me happy and healthy, then that conversation planted a seed and they're more likely to revisit that. And I've seen it happen time and time.

And again, when I was evangelistic and I was shouting things from the rooftop, whether that was. You know, I was trying a vegan diet or I was going animal based. Like I got flack when I did both back in the day from family, coworkers, friends, girlfriend, spouse, you name it. But then, and it would take years sometimes, but when I did it, push for it, that's when people came back around and said, Hey, I want to try this.

Can you help me, you know, get started? Or, Hey, I tried this. Because I remember our conversation and it helped me. And, and so I'm glad that you didn't push it on me. Otherwise it would have been open to it. And so it's, it's, it's interesting because. We, I still don't believe we know the truth, you know, that's what I was saying at hack your health and you said it very Beautifully too five years ago.

I didn't believe what I believe now. So logically five years from now, 

Michael Kummer: right? Yeah, 

Bates: you know And what I would have vehemently argued against Before is what I believe now and so likely again that will be repeated. So the point of me saying all that is I don't think that it's black and white. I think we have shards of the truth.

I just don't think we have a complete picture. And I see the truth as a limitless amount of, or rather an infinite amount of puzzle pieces. So with each experiment or first hand experience we get, we gather another piece. But I think it's foolish to believe that we'll ever complete the picture because I think physiology and, and, And circumstances are just too complex and it's almost liberating to free yourself from the idea of thinking that you're responsible to figuring it all out.

Michael Kummer: Right. And so there's a combination 

Bates: of those things 

Michael Kummer: as well that helps me. Yeah. Yeah. No, that, that, that's a very good point. And I think the, both from a, you know, from following someone else's advice, as well as, you know, following your own convictions, I've also noticed that the more open you are. to just experimentation, because at the end of the day, it doesn't cost you anything.

You know, if, if I want to start, you know, eating, you know, lettuce tomorrow to see how I feel, I do that, you know, because what's the harm, you know, if I get, you know, an upset stomach or whatever, so what, you know, um, there was very little risk to doing certain things to, until you find out, you know, how they, you know, how, how you respond to them, right.

I wouldn't want to eat broccoli for the rest of my life exclusively, but, you know, just having some and see, Hey, you know, having it once a year, maybe, you know, It doesn't matter, you know, um, whereas in the past it would have said never, ever broccoli. And I mean, it's like, you know, the kryptonite, you know, of my lifestyle.

Same 

Bates: color. Right. Um, the, I think that's a good point. And I, I do think the more extreme you go with the experimentation and the longer you go, clearly that's where you have more risk. But I think if you're going to try anything in a reasonable moderation for 30, 90, 120 days. I think nothing, knock on wood, you know, that I know is reversible, right?

You know, this is not medical advice, but, but in general, most experiments that you do with a supplement or a food or a lifestyle or whatnot, you can get a pretty good idea in 30, days. How you feel, trust your intuition and your instinct and then alter it or stop it or continue to do it, depending on the results.

Michael Kummer: Right, right. And, and because I'm doing that now more and I, you know, give myself, I'm not as rigid anymore, I guess is what I'm trying to say. You know, I, now I've also, um, I, I listen to others differently. Like, you know, if I hear a, you know, let's say a Dr. Sean Baker, you know, some of the hardcore carnivore people, you know, I listen to it.

I understand, you know, what he's trying to, to say, I appreciate what he's trying to say, but at the same time, you know, I no longer believe that, oh, just because he's doing it and it's been working for him means that we all have to do this and only exactly that, right? Um, there are so many, and even, I guess, within the plant world, you know, there are, there is good information out there.

Um, that doesn't mean I'm going to be a vegan or a vegetarian anytime soon. Probably never, you know, but there are certain things where I'm like, you know what, now we actually grow in tomatoes, tomatoes are not necessarily among the least toxic, you know, while there are fruits technically, or veggies, you know, on, on the list, right.

Based on our animal based framework. Uh, but nonetheless, you know, if I eat cherry tomatoes that, that, that we grow, you know, three times a week, you know, with dinner. I don't think it's gonna, you know, negatively impact me whatsoever, you know? 

Bates: Yeah, yeah. You know, I was just talking to my girlfriend about this today, because I, I really believe in 80 20.

I like, I like, Being on point at least 80 percent of the time. And I think anybody can see progress with 80, 20. Right. Well, I, I, I am, I feel pretty good with the way that I'm doing things now. So I, I, I would say that 95 percent of the time I am dialed in and I make exceptions 5 percent of the time. So one of those times was we went out for sushi last night.

So I don't normally eat white rice, but I generally feel pretty good. I normally avoid the soy sauce, but I'm a very healthy person. I don't have the issues I used to because I've done all these experiments I've learned so much. And, and then, but then once in a while I'm reminded, and so, and I, this isn't a big thing, but just today I could see in my body and my face a little more puffiness, probably inflammation from having soy sauce, right, at MSG, whatever, and I know, I haven't probably had soy sauce in, I don't know, two years, and in addition to that, we had, um, some, you know, ice cream with added sugar.

I normally avoid added sugar, I just get sugar from fruit, you know, and then carbohydrates from maybe sweet potatoes, a lot of milk. So, um, yeah. But mostly fruit. And so I could just tell between those two things. I'm like, Oh, like that didn't, it's not going to kill me, but I don't think I want to do that every day.

I feel a little different and I look a little different and I'm not really neurotic about these things. So if I notice it, it's a, it's a pretty big thing. I really believe in balance. 

Michael Kummer: So 

Bates: I think great. And that might be too specific of an example, but I think that's what people can really use. It's like, how do you look, how do you feel, and it's like, everyone's going to be a little bit different.

I know people who, you know, they'll eat a lot of white rice and it doesn't bother them. Right. A lot of, you know, added sugar and ice cream and they're fit as a fiddle. But for me, it's those things don't seem to jive well, and I can't tell you why. I don't really never know why would I spend energy and attention and resources trying to pin down the thing that will always evade me instead of just realizing the association and letting that be enough.

So I think what I'm saying is there's a little bit of this neurosis behind it. So people want to label things as good or bad, but in reality, it's a gradient. 

Michael Kummer: Yeah, 

Bates: and it's a gradient that changes based off of a lot of variables. Um, and, and we don't have all these variables identified, 

Michael Kummer: right? And 

Bates: so I think, again, it kind of comes back to like the infinite puzzle.

I think it's almost liberating to say, Oh, I don't need to figure this out because no one ever is. But if I learn firsthand and I practice. Getting really attuned to my instinct and my tuition and my observations of myself, then that will be enough. And I think that reframe has really helped me and a lot of people.

Michael Kummer: Yeah, I agree. And one thing that has been sticking in my head since you said it, you know, in the beginning of, of, uh, when we started recording, you know, trying to accommodate others and how that backfires. You know, it's part of your relationship, you know, there is obviously you can, you can overdo it, but I'm very much believe in, you know, what I tell you, you know, I bought an airplane, you know, put in your own mask first before helping others.

And I think in a, in a relationship, if you are not happy with yourself, you're not going to be happy in that relationship. And it, it might be potentially, you know, if, if you realize that you cannot be happy, just being yourself in that relationship, then maybe that relationship is not. Good for you, you know, that's, I mean, it's a tough realization, especially if it's a committed, you know, maybe a marriage, maybe a marriage with kids, whatever, grandkids, you know, um, but ultimately, you know, it's something that if, if you do not feel like you can compromise while still retaining, you know, your own integrity and being happy with yourself and what you do, it might be time to, you know, do something about it.

And on the flip side, I know before you even, before it even gets there. I think you wanna, you wanna, as you said, you know, set your ground rules, you know, compromise, obviously, you know, I, I've, I've learned that so many things that I thought that are like hardcore kind of important things that nothing bad is going to happen if we just deviate from that a little bit, you know, I was, I was, I mean, every time, you know, I would not be, be in bed by nine, I would get upset in the past.

And I'm like, you know, why I'm doing all of those things to be, you know, in such good health that if I cannot handle, you know, going to bed at 10 one day, you know, I mean, you know, um, and so, you know, there are obviously, you know, there's, you know, some woody room there, there should be, there has to be flexibility.

You cannot be rigid. But at the same time, I think you need to figure out what is truly important to you. Maybe not in this particular moment where your emotions are in a certain way where you cannot see any alternative, right? But maybe a few days later if you you know If you revisit and say is this really in a way I draw the line in the sand or can I maybe you know?

Give a little bit more and we're all happy 

Bates: Yeah, I think there's a lot of wisdom in what you're saying because you you can't not have a plan That's we know that's failure But if you have a plan that is so fragile that adapting to things that you couldn't see Until you started implementing it, that hamstrings you just as much.

So you might as well have, have a fundamentals intact, but a flexible plan, like you said. And I think, I think that's the same thing for health as, as well as relationships. And what I mean by that is a reasonable amount of disagreeability is the kindest way that you can treat somebody overly agreeable causes pain and resentment.

And it's, it's so interesting how I think men especially are, uh, in my generation, millennials are atypically agreeable because of a lot of the modern ways that we've been raised. And I don't think it's any fault to our parents. I think that's just the modern times. And it does cause a lot of problems in relationships because sometimes you're not willing to, you know, tell, tell the waiter, like, no, that's not what I ordered.

Or when you're, you know, you're out with your girlfriend at the grocery store and some guy's making her feel uncomfortable and you don't have the balls to stand up to him. And it's like all these little things, but then when you like, Start to remove the filters, the nice guy filters, and you just say what you think.

And, and, and, and as long as your intentions are pure, right? Like your goal is to be compassionate. And to be efficient and to be understanding, then everything is you remove the filter. Life is so easy because you just say what you think and what you feel, and sometimes it might rub people the wrong way in the moment, but the long term yield is so 

Michael Kummer: much better 

Bates: when you're, when you're overly nice and overly agreeable, then the short term is easier, but the long term is so much 

Michael Kummer: harder and 

Bates: it's kind of like health, right?

The short term, it requires a lot more effort. Because you got to like eat this, watch your bedtime, get the sunlight, get this movement. But the longterm yield is incredible. 

Extra: Right? 

Bates: But then if you make the easy decisions in the short term, your health is going to suffer and not that far away. Right? Not even the longterm really sucks, but even the midterm 

Michael Kummer: is 

Bates: really unfortunate.

And so I think it's the same thing. You have to look at the longterm investment and, and it took me a long time. And a lot of pain and a lot of repeating the same mistakes to realize that the more that I stated what I wanted, and the more that I lived the life that I was drawn to, the more it helped the people around me.

And so I think a reframe is really helpful for men that I've worked with, especially for myself, because you're so afraid to be. And you're so afraid to not be considerate enough, but then you realize that like your fear of being an asshole actually makes it worse for the people around you. 

Michael Kummer: Right, right.

And that's a very good point. One of the things that I've seen, uh, in, in my circle is that being super agreeable causes anxiety. Because at the end of the day, you know, you're lying about what you really think and want to do, right? And so those lies build up, you know, you agree to, you know, meeting or, you know, doing this and doing that.

And you kind of get into this, into this, um, almost like an autopilot kind of thing where your life is then driven by someone else. You're, you're no longer at the wheel, you know, because you're, you're saying yes to everything and then doing everything. And, and, and it's anxiety inducing, it's exhausting, it's stressful.

And you build up resentment and then at the end of the day, you know, people wonder why is it so difficult to then, you know, lose weight or be healthy or whatever if you're, if you're always maxed out as far as your stress levels are concerned, because you're always trying to accommodate people, you know, instead of saying, no, you know, I'm not going to do that, or I can't, or I don't want to.

In reality, you know, it's not about what I can and can't, it's I don't want to, you know, I don't want to meet you today. No offense, but I don't want to meet you today, you know? 

Bates: Yeah, let me share a quick story, and it's so funny, it's not really related to health or relationships, it's related to what you're talking about.

Great guy I met recently in Austin, um, he has a company that they have this amazing water filtration source, so they're very much in line with what I'm thinking of health, but they, his buddy has a boat, and there's a lake here in Austin, and a lot of people love to go out on the boat and get sun and hang out.

And I hate going on the boat, because I'm stuck there for four hours. So if I get if I want to do something else Or it's like, or if people are drinking and partying too much, it's like, it's not my scene. And so, um, I immediately said to him, I sent him a voice message. He texted me. He's like, yeah, you want to come to us?

I was like, look, I really appreciate the invite. I am not a boat guy, so I will not be coming. 

Michael Kummer: And 

Bates: then we talked about later and he laughed about it, but a few years ago. I would have been like, Oh, well, I have to spend half my Saturday and I would have built up resentment or we got annoyed with the people that were on there.

And it wouldn't have been a good way for me to spend my time. It's right. And then I think roles reverse. If I invited somebody to something, I would only want them to be there if that's where they want it to be. And that's, again, that's not directly pertaining to health and relationships, but I think if we extrapolate that idea and we apply it elsewhere, it's the same thing, if, If someone is trying to push you to live a certain way or eat a certain way, and you don't really enjoy it, and you don't want to do it, it's like, if they are really an advocate for your well being, they'll understand if you don't decide to do it, or if you need to do it a different way to feel better.

the best that you can, can feel because then you'll start to be the best that you can be and they'll benefit from that. 

Michael Kummer: Right. Um, now I think it's, it's very much as a, as a relationship kind of issue, but because we've had that so many times in the past where, you know, at some point my wife said it actually started to backpedal here a little bit.

Um, we started looking at our closet and my wife said, you know what? We have to clean up our closet. You know, you look at something and within two seconds you say, I love it. Or not, if not, it has to go. Right. And then we started applying that same principle to, you know, gathering, so, you know, doing stuff, activities, meeting friends, and you know, what have you.

And it was always, okay, do you truly want to do this? Do you love, you know, meeting ABC, whatever, otherwise it's a no, right? And I realized for myself that in 19 out of 20 cases, I would say no. And I'm like, okay, hold on a minute. It simplifies my life for sure. But on the flip side, you know, I always, I also realized the.

The necessity of building community because that whole l and warrior kind of thing, you know, I, I don't think it's gonna work either. So we need friends and family. And how do you balance that? If you feel like you wanna say no, but at the same time, you know, you don't want to be, you know, stuck by, you know, a alone eat if you ever need someone, you know, to actually, you know, get something done.

So it's kind of a balance, you know, how, how do you, and I think it's also maybe not about, I, I think you can, you can change your perspective on. Why maybe you want to say no, but even though, you know, deep down, you'll actually, it's going to be fun. It might just be inconvenient that you have to change your priorities a little bit to make it, to make that switch of saying, yes, I actually want to meet with you, um, even though I, you know, I wanted to reply to a thousand emails.

You know? 

Bates: Yeah. I mean, it is a conundrum. It's a catch 22. And there is a, this whole priority hierarchy kind of that you have mentally that you have to filter this through. But I think. I didn't come up with this. Obviously it's been out in the internet for a while, but I think the, if it's not a fuck yes, it's a fuck no rule is a pretty good 

Michael Kummer: part 

Bates: of my French.

Um, but then when it comes to building community, I think that's a really interesting point. And so the twist that I would throw on that personally, is that Okay. I, I need to say yes to some, to the people that matter to me, to building community, to being social. So where am I going to fit that and make it kind of like, like I do my workouts.

I love most of the time. I love my workouts and I look forward to them, but the weeks that I don't necessarily look forward to them. I remember, well, I remember how I feel. During and after my workout, even if I'm not looking forward to it, I kind of apply that to the social situations or even like sometimes if i'm really focused on work and date night is coming up I know date night's important.

I might want to push through my work, but i'm like, you know what? I remember the feeling of being on the date and after the date And I know that once I get into it, it's going to be the right decision, even if I'm a little sidelined right now. And so I, I think, yeah, workouts, dates, social outings, I think that's how I treat it.

Cause I, I try to recall the last time I did something like that and it went well. And I'm like, I just need to, to prioritize this. Because at the end of the day, I don't think that, um, we should ever sacrifice the quality of our life. And maybe it's easy for me to say, because I'm a very gregarious, like outgoing person.

It's. Health and spending quality time with people are two of things that I don't want to ever let suffer, no matter how great the mission, right? And I know not everybody thinks that nowadays, right? We get in these phases of, we need to either have this kind of following or impact on the world or financial buildup or, you know, this kind of thing.

But for me, balance is, is the most important thing. And I know that if I'm not healthy, I'm not going to be able to maintain a balance or be a good person for the people I care about. And if I don't spend time with those people, nothing's really worth doing in the end. And so, so again, to kind of summarize, it's a little bit of establishing that hierarchy of importance in your mind, but then invariably there are going to be days that you don't want to do things.

But it's just remembering the benefits of them, like specifically, like, I remember doing this and feeling this way. I should probably give it a go anyway, because I'll probably feel that way once I get out of my head a little bit. 

Michael Kummer: Right, right. Okay. That makes sense. Yeah. And I've kind of noticed the same, you know, whenever I, you know, I look back and think, okay, in the past, you know, if I felt the way I felt, but then it was actually fun.

I kind of, you know, try to apply that and kind of forecast whether or not I should be saying yes or no. Mm-Hmm. Okay. Yeah, like that makes a lot of sense. That's why 

Bates: the boat's a no for me. Yeah. Of walking a bunch of walking and talk in the sun is almost always a yes. Or grabbing or grabbing, like grilling and chilling.

Uhhuh, , uh, you know, anything that rhymes 

Michael Kummer: is a yes. Right, right, right. Okay. Gotcha. Um, maybe to wrap it up, if someone is currently. dating or trying, trying to, trying to date, let's put it that way. He's out there trying to find a spouse, a future spouse, you know, uh, what would be your, you know, top three or whatever, uh, tips to quickly figure out is this person worth pursuing or not?

And how do you handle someone who says, well, I haven't really thought about diet that much. You know, I don't think it's important. You know, how do you, what is your, what are your tips on how to approach those situations and handle them efficiently so you don't waste a whole lot of time? But there, you know, you have a good chance of success finding someone.

Bates: Yeah, I, I think that I'll do one for, yeah, I'll kind of segment into three parts first is you have to actually put the energy into going on the dates. You have to have a big pool of people, you know, approach women that you're magnetized to, and you can't necessarily put on your finger why, or if you're on the apps, don't be a pen pal, just try to get, try to get a woman in person and get the repetitions in of having a face to face conversation, because in five minutes.

If you have your non negotiables established and you know what you want, you will know whether or not this is a candidate for you or not in the long run. So that, that's the first is like, get these opportunities in and realize that you don't ever need to settle. But then after you've had this first interaction, I guess my second tip would be don't leave the loop open, close the loop.

So after the first date, Don't ghost the girl, right? I don't know if you heard that term, but people just never text them or talk to them again, like tell them that you had a good time, but you don't see a future with her just like, and then close the loop because it's so healthy for men mentally and women.

Uh, and it's the opposite of what a lot of people do. And then that way, as you do meet other women or you go on dates, you can focus your full attention on whatever's in front of you, that quality of presence is really important. So get a lot of opportunities through repetitions. Cause you learn a lot, make sure you're honest and you close the loop.

And part of that honesty too, is checking in with your intuition and your instinct. Cause we almost always know the answer. We're just not really willing to admit it to ourselves. And then, and then the final thing I would say is. If you find yourself rationalizing, Uh, that like this person could be for you.

It's probably a no. It's kind of goes back to the yes and the fuck no, right? Like sometimes you go on a date, you're like, well, you know, this person is attractive, I like X, Y, and Z, but I don't really like this, but then they have this quality, so it counterbalances it. I think we, again, instinctually, I don't know how it was with, with your wife, but with my girlfriend, I couldn't tell you why, but instinctually I knew she was special.

And so I, I think if you find yourself, you know, having this debate or rationalizing it, it's just, it's just a no, you know, Yeah. 

Michael Kummer: Yeah. Makes sense. That's, that's, that's good advice. Um, all right. 

Bates: Oh, and I guess a bonus, um, because we've been talking about it a lot is, Don't, if, if, if you have this feeling that they're special, but maybe they don't eat the same diet as you, maybe they don't live the same lifestyle, and maybe that you guys different, or not differentiate, disagree in a few small things about the future, just realize like, that, if, if the raw materials are there, again, if they're open minded, if they're curious, if, if you come alive and you're around them, It's the specifics of the future.

It's just you and them being, doing your best to predict that's a forecast. So it's, that might change. So I'm not saying that you should, every, every person you kind of like, you should. You should just double down and see what the future holds. But if it's, if they're that special, if you go on 54 first dates, and this one's different than all the other ones, but you don't agree on X, Y, and Z, that's like six, seven years from now.

I don't think that's a reason to not 

Michael Kummer: explore 

Bates: getting to know them better because people are impressionable. 

Michael Kummer: Right. 

Bates: And although men definitely, It can leave a lasting impression on a woman. It happens the other way around 

Michael Kummer: too. 

Bates: And so it's like almost like we talked about, having this openness to grow based off of this other person and they'll do the same.

Michael Kummer: Right. Yeah. No, that makes a whole lot of sense. Well, thanks so much. It was a whole lot of good information again. Appreciate it. All the information you gave me on the first episode, like where people can find you, I'm going to link it down below the show notes again. All right. Cool. Um, yeah, with that, I think we can actually wrap it up again.

Appreciate it. It was fun. Yeah, of course. This is a lot of fun. Yeah. Um, and yeah, next time I'm in Austin, I'll ping you. Um, 

Bates: please do, please do. 

Michael Kummer: It's definitely going to be at the next biohacking conference, but hopefully sooner. 

Bates: Yeah. Well, I, uh, uh, yeah, I don't know if we're still rolling or not, but I appreciate you always having me on.

It was fun to introduce you to Courtney. At the, uh, at the, uh, hack your health. I saw taking the liver capsules for the bottle you gave me at the end that was open and she, and she got yours too. So appreciate that. And, um, yeah, it's always, I always think we have a really fun conversation. So I appreciate you just.

You have a good amount of disagreeability. Right. We can shoot straight with the conversation, which I like. 

Michael Kummer: Yeah. 

Bates: Yeah, yeah. 

Michael Kummer: Alright, cool. Well, again, thanks so much. Say hello to Courtney, and I'll see you guys soon, hopefully. I will, I will. Cheers. Thanks. 

Extra: Coming up on the next episode of the Primal Shift podcast, Michael Kummer takes a deep dive into a Thanksgiving staple, turkey.

But this time, it's not just about flavor. Michael explores why choosing a pasture raised turkey can make all the difference, not only for your health, but also for the environment and animal welfare. He shares insights from raising slow growing turkeys on his own homestead, discussing everything from the nutritional benefits to the ethical impact of your choice at the dinner table.

If you've ever wondered what goes into the bird sitting at the center of your Thanksgiving feast, this episode will leave you rethinking that conventional grocery store turkey. Tune in to discover how opting for a pasture raised bird can elevate your holiday meal in ways you might never have imagined.

Stay tuned and remember, your primal health begins with what's on your plate.