20: Heidi Moretti: How to Heal Gut Issues and Improve Your Gut Health

Michael Kummer (00:02.614)
All right. So welcome to the show, Heidi. It's been a while since we last chatted. And in the meantime, a lot of things have happened. You released a book, right? Yeah, very, very cool. And so, you know, let's talk about gut health. One of the things I've noticed that, you know, usually gut health is not something that every, you know, you talk to people a lot, you know, if you meet someone, you know, the first thing you say is that, Hey, you know, I have actually got issues. You know, so that usually comes up then later in a conversation. If you, you know,

Heidi Moretti (00:11.106)
Yeah, definitely.

Michael Kummer (00:32.09)
continue engaging with certain people. But interestingly enough, the more I bring up gut health in discussions, the more it turns out everyone has got issues, right? To varying degrees. There are very few people that can say, my gut feels absolutely fine on most days. From bloating, diarrhea, constipation, just feeling not great, acid reflux, there are so many...

Heidi Moretti (00:42.094)
It's true.

Michael Kummer (01:00.706)
variations of gut issues, many of which, you know, there are many that are diagnosed, right, and there are some that it's like an exclusion diagnosis. If it's not any of the other thing, then it's, you know, IBS maybe or, you know, some of those other acronyms that I'm sure we're gonna touch on. And so you've, you've dealt a lot with people that have gut issues and you have a good idea of what it takes to A, prevent them and B, heal them once you have reached a certain point.

He actually wrote a book about it. So, you know, let's talk about, you know, what are some of the most common gut issues, what are some of the symptoms of those gut issues and where do they come from? Why does everyone have gut issues?

Heidi Moretti (01:31.814)
No.

Heidi Moretti (01:44.818)
Yeah, that's so true. It's, I think, 66% of people living here have something diagnosable, and you're right. Almost everybody else just hasn't had it diagnosed yet. In my experience, it runs the gamut, and usually people have, at a minimum, heartburn occasionally, and then often in combination with some level of constipation or diarrhea or irritable bowel.

Now a lot of people wonder the distinction between irritable bowel versus just having constipation and the major distinction is having gut pain that's chronic or at least a good chunk of the time. So yes, it's extremely common and it's typically like a pretty simple fix. Getting to the root cause is always a diet factor.

Michael Kummer (02:23.095)
Mm-hmm.

Michael Kummer (02:41.763)
Mm-hmm.

Heidi Moretti (02:41.81)
or missing nutrients or stress. So there's a lot of low-hanging fruit for people to really take on. And sadly, I think what happens though is they go to the doctor, they say they have gut pain, maybe a five-minute conversation without anything about food is brought up, and then they get a pill, whether it be the New Lenz S or it's an acid-blocking drug, and still they...

may feel a little better, but have to live with the long-term side effects of the drug. You know, they may never be taken off this drug and it's got its own set of harmful issues over time. So the magnitude of the problem is huge. And I think, I mean, the main reason I took on the book is because of the magnitude of the problem without people still feeling fairly frustrated when they come out of the doctor's office. And...

They tell me, well, they didn't find anything on my scope, but I still feel terrible. They don't have a solution. So, and you know, I think there are a lot of great solutions and you've found a lot for yourself and you know, people you've talked to, I know. So I think, you know, that's, I think at the crux of it is people just don't have the awareness of the things that they can do to heal. And there's a lot, a lot of tools. So.

Michael Kummer (03:44.194)
Right. Yeah.

Yeah.

Michael Kummer (04:07.546)
Yeah, yeah. And it's so funny that, as you said, you know, that it's such a low-hanging fruit. I mean, it's diet, you know, stress or nutrient deficiencies. I mean, those are really the big three. And they can be fixed so easily, at least on paper. And now changing a diet is not easy by any means, depending on, you know, what if you've been eating a certain way for decades, changing that and getting out of, you know, that...

what you think you know is healthy and what everyone tells you is healthy might not actually be healthy at all. And you know, whenever someone then says, but you know, what you're doing is not healthy and what I'm doing is healthy, because that's what my doctor said. I'm like, well, then how come that I feel good and you're not, you know, at the end of the day, it proves in the pudding, right? If something makes you feel good, chances are it's good for you. If something makes you feel not good, then...

Heidi Moretti (04:50.014)
Right, exactly.

Michael Kummer (04:59.53)
maybe it's not so good for you, regardless of what your doctor tells you. And so, so diet, what are some of the, you know, biggest dietary factors that influence gut health or that can destroy your gut health and what, how does a healthy gut look like? What, how, how is it supposed to feel and, and look from the outside if you have a healthy digestive system? Maybe let's start with that.

Heidi Moretti (05:04.285)
Absolutely.

Heidi Moretti (05:26.174)
Right, yeah, that's a great place to talk about it. You know, the, I mean, the biggest problem here is refined carbohydrates and sugar. They, it's a fairly direct impact on the gut. They, the sugar goes into the digestive tract. The bad bacteria have a heyday with it. They grow, they expand, they cause bloating. So whether it be sugar from soda.

donuts, candies, muffins, pumpkin spice lattes, right? It's all the same in terms of it's gonna cause a lot of gut distress. And if you have a muffin along with it, right? Or a donut or the break room has bagels and you know, it's just the constant onslaught of processed carbohydrates that are the biggest problem for most people. So that all...

Michael Kummer (06:00.445)
Right.

Michael Kummer (06:18.818)
All right.

Heidi Moretti (06:24.77)
has a negative effect on the gut bacteria, causing bloating, causing pain, causing constipation, sometimes even diarrhea, because there's no real substance or nutrients to support all this carb. And I don't think that's a factor, even a lot of healthcare professionals think about is the lack of the nutrients that come with those carbohydrate foods. And that's just causing more insult.

to the gut lining. And the reason the lack of nutrients causes damage to the lining is simply the cells don't get the nutrients they need to have a good structure and function. So, and nutrients are the building blocks of everything, gut cells, they're the building blocks of the probiotics in our gut and it's hugely neglected.

Even when I worked in the hospital, we had such limited tools like, you know, that we would, someone would come in with terrible gut issues and you would say, well, I'm sure they're malnourished, they don't have enough nutrients, but the thing is, like, our tools were so limited, we could give them some artificial compounds from the pharmacy as so-called vitamins and then hope for the best, you know, and maybe they'd get a high sugar insurer.

Michael Kummer (07:46.563)
Right.

Heidi Moretti (07:49.07)
you know, because they're on a full liquid diet. It's just a hot mess, you know. So I think those are really the low-hanging fruit as far as the causes of the major issues. There's more to the story. I mean, intolerances play a big role as well. And I think, yeah.

Michael Kummer (07:49.934)
Right.

Michael Kummer (07:53.667)
Yeah.

Michael Kummer (08:07.438)
And I want to bring up because I noticed that, you know, my gut issues, when I, what I guess was IBS, irritable bowel syndrome, which because there was no better diagnosis. So the doctor said, well, it's IBS, you know, and I've noticed it completely went away when I changed to a paleo diet. And at the time paleo eating for us meant a piece of meat and a side of veggies, you know, usually.

grilled zucchini or something simple, you know, and the issues went away. And then when I went on a keto diet, those issues actually returned to, you know, maybe a lesser degree, but I felt suddenly gut issues again, despite the lack of processed carbohydrates, right? And I realized that, well, for me, and I think that's true for a good number of people, there are a lot of sensitivities that stem, in my opinion, from

Heidi Moretti (08:39.355)
Okay.

Heidi Moretti (08:54.786)
well.

Michael Kummer (09:07.702)
certain plants, be it veggies or even fruits, you know, it doesn't really matter. Your sensitivities vary from person to person, that, you know, even if you take the first step and remove all the processed carbs, or even if you remove all carbs for the matter, like on a strict keto diet, you might still have issues. And I had that and I noticed, you know, there are specific plants that I absolutely cannot have without feeling almost immediate symptoms, you know.

Heidi Moretti (09:24.117)
Mm.

Heidi Moretti (09:34.434)
Do you mind if I ask which ones that really trigger you?

Michael Kummer (09:36.538)
So for me is onions, garlic, leafy greens, artichokes. So stuff with inulin, with certain fibers, right? I've noticed is a big issue. And funny enough, then other things like that I would say, you know, arguably maybe even worse, like wheat, not so much of an issue.

Heidi Moretti (09:48.758)
Yeah, absolutely.

Heidi Moretti (10:03.958)
Really? Okay.

Michael Kummer (10:04.13)
So I can eat a whole pizza and I feel fine, but if I look at an artichoke, I'm bloated.

Heidi Moretti (10:11.022)
Yeah, I know. Yeah, they do ferment those carbs and things like artichokes are just like, just like, cause like a wildfire reaction. I mean, in terms of like the bacteria just, again, have a heyday, I think, in a lot of people. I'm similar with especially okra. It's, we don't get a lot here where I live. And so I, we were celebrating, went out to eat and had okra.

oh man, that night was rough. You know, it just also just the, I think, too, like to a degree I wasn't used to it, but then I ate a lot of it, you know, there's I think a component of the amount, but I agree, some of the same components. What's weird for me is onions are totally fine, garlic, no, garlic's a no. And I don't know, there's just subtleties for everyone. And I think that just points to the fact that yes.

Michael Kummer (10:39.146)
Yeah.

Michael Kummer (10:47.258)
When the... Yeah.

Michael Kummer (11:01.975)
Mm-hmm.

Heidi Moretti (11:06.43)
you really have to individualize and tailor your diet regardless of what anyone has told you, you know. I've had, you know, people, you know, like in my family where they were told, like they had IBS and the doctor just said, well, just eat more fiber, just eat more fiber. You know, and at the end of the day, they just felt even worse, more frustrated, no tools. And, you know, it's a.

Michael Kummer (11:13.302)
Right. Yeah.

Michael Kummer (11:25.599)
Yeah.

Michael Kummer (11:29.295)
Yeah.

Michael Kummer (11:32.87)
Mm-hmm.

Heidi Moretti (11:34.95)
The fiber thing is a very sticky, contentious topic because it gets a green light by so many healthcare professionals and ultimately the fiber, it's just not, like it's an apple and an orange, like the inulin in okra versus the wheat lectins and there's so many components that.

Michael Kummer (12:01.495)
and then.

Heidi Moretti (12:04.286)
And some people say you do fine with pizza. Yeah, I've been there too. And then you eat a whole grain cereal and it wreaks havoc. It's the grain, the whole component.

Michael Kummer (12:14.52)
Nah.

Yeah, yeah, I seem to be doing much better with the least amount of fiber in my diet. And, you know, and again, there are so many, the problem really is, I think, twofold. One is that most of us eat so many different things every day that it's very difficult to pinpoint what's causing your issues or what's causing most of your issues. Right. And, and if you really, and we, you know, when I went to the doctor, he said, well, you know, just, you know,

Heidi Moretti (12:40.6)
Right.

Michael Kummer (12:46.19)
try out certain things and remove certain foods, but if you just remove one food, you know, and I still eat 20 of other different foods on a given day, I'm going to be experimenting for the rest of my life and will likely never find out what it is, because sometimes it's also the combination of certain foods, not the individual one, but you eat two and suddenly you have an issue, whereas if you eat them individually, you know, it's fine, or it might be, you know, one day you're more stressed and you're more susceptible to...

Heidi Moretti (13:00.031)
Right.

Heidi Moretti (13:05.472)
Absolutely.

Michael Kummer (13:15.746)
those issues, whereas on another day where you're relaxed, maybe, you know, you handle it fine. And, and so for me, like really, you know, doing like a clean kind of slate, you know, removing everything that could potentially be the issue and then move, you know, reintroducing them one by one. I've, I felt like is easier and, and I get quicker to, you know, where I want to be to find out what is causing an issue and what is not versus, you know,

Heidi Moretti (13:29.494)
Right.

Heidi Moretti (13:42.155)
Right.

Michael Kummer (13:42.838)
continue eating everything and then just removing one by one, because sometimes, you know, you eat something for a day and it's fine. You eat it for two days, it's fine. You eat it for three days and it's not fine anymore, you know, or in vice versa. You remove something for one day, no difference. But if you were to, you know, continue avoiding that food for several days in a row, sometimes even several weeks, depending on, you know, sometimes, you know, you got microbiota takes, takes time to, you know.

restructure to let the bad bacteria die off and to let some of the good ones move in, that doesn't always happen overnight. And the other thing is really that there is so much, I think most people and most doctors, most healthcare professionals don't believe that you can fix your gut issues by dietary changes. That's one of the most

Heidi Moretti (14:17.246)
Exactly. Yep, it's true.

Heidi Moretti (14:35.135)
Yeah, that's.

Michael Kummer (14:37.226)
like pushbacks I've been getting is, well, you're not really fixing the problem. You're just, you're just removing, you know, the food that's, that's causing the issue. I'm like, well, you know, if, if you have, you know, if you smoke cigarettes, you know, stopping, you know, cigarette smoke is, you know, it might prevent, you know, from lung cancer. You fixed the problem, you know, because you shouldn't be smoking in the first place, right? And there are certain foods that you maybe shouldn't be having or humans shouldn't be having in general.

like processed, over-processed carbohydrates, right? There is really no good reason to consume those. And so yes, you are fixing the problem. You're not just limiting yourself and to avoid the occurrence of the issue. But most people, they don't.

Heidi Moretti (15:05.26)
Yeah.

Heidi Moretti (15:17.088)
Right?

Right, I exactly.

They don't get trained unless they, and some do, on their own, but that's just not part of the training process, even learning about foods. But I agree with you, starting out and just, and I've actually warmed up to that idea a lot of just stripping it down to, you know, like meats and of high quality meats. Because they really are for a lot of people. I don't think people tend to believe it though until they actually do it.

Michael Kummer (15:45.048)
Right.

Heidi Moretti (15:52.362)
because it's such a belief that they can't get behind because everybody in the world has told them that's not the way to do it. It's very, I think it takes a very strong disposition in a person to say, yeah, I'm gonna do that. I'm gonna go against everything I've been told and do that and then add things in. So I think the only people who really experience that benefit is.

Michael Kummer (15:52.654)
Right.

Michael Kummer (16:02.658)
Right. Yeah.

Michael Kummer (16:08.975)
Yes.

Heidi Moretti (16:19.866)
are the very select few people who are willing to do that. So that's the world, you know, I'm working in the context of all this, all the people that have all these beliefs and you have to work around their beliefs. And, you know, I think that's where I think, you know, there are the tools that, yes, you can do that. And I think it's super beneficial to strip them, the diet to just the basic, you know, because you have to have the protein building blocks. That's just not.

Michael Kummer (16:30.542)
Mm-mm.

Heidi Moretti (16:47.474)
You could say, argue that legumes could be an option, but they really are not because they are one of the biggest gut triggers. And in my book, I talk about that it's sometimes causal in things like irritable bowel. Legumes are just a rough, rough thing for so many people's gut. I'm not saying everybody. I've met many people who are like, oh no, legumes are fine for me. And then...

like fine, great, that's fine. And I'm glad they are for you, you know, that works great. It's just that by and large, they have some of the highest anti-nutrient compounds that really cause gut pain and the, you know, the anti-nutrients kind of, they disrupt the gut lining and cause leaky gut. And there's just so many reasons that they would not be the protein choice for many if they really are trying to heal. And of course, organ meats being.

Michael Kummer (17:36.538)
Hmm.

Michael Kummer (17:45.946)
Thanks.

Heidi Moretti (17:46.138)
I have to put the plug in for organ meats and I know we're on the same page and I love organ meats. I incorporate many in every single day. That's the one thing I'm very faithful with. Interestingly, just, I just, you know, it's, my skin, everything, they just, it helps a ton, you know, approaching 50 and I just feel like it's like, I can't live without it and.

Like I want to say the ones that are really important to my health right now are of course the bone and marrow, liver and also this intestinal, grass-fed intestines are game changers every single day. So yeah. And I know you've got a new product that's coming out with intestines in it too. So I'm excited to try that and kidney and things. So yeah. But yeah, healing.

Michael Kummer (18:26.864)
Mm hmm. Yeah.

Michael Kummer (18:40.031)
Yep.

Heidi Moretti (18:42.574)
in a traditional sense. And you know, I think we had talked before that, you know, in nature our animals eat the organs first. And I actually witnessed this because, Michael, I give this to my cat. I always give my cats and dogs some organ meats too, and they will eat around, they will eat it first, always. So it's, yeah, I think we are.

Michael Kummer (19:06.815)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Heidi Moretti (19:10.35)
hardwired to need the nutritional and the components we can't even fully understand and these organ meats are beyond, you know, we know there's lots of antioxidants, but there's essential, you know, bio-directors in organ meats that are healing.

Michael Kummer (19:27.018)
Yeah. And even like certain omnivores, you know, because for, you know, we have chickens, right? And so the other day we had like some liver pate that was already too long in the freezer and we didn't want to eat it anymore. And plus my recipe wasn't really that great for that batch. And so we fed it to the chickens and they would go nuts. I mean, they have, you know, free choice, you know, there are corn and soy free organic grains and you know, the best.

chicken feed we can buy, but anytime there is animal protein and in particular organ meat involved, they go nuts for that and they don't even look at anything else. And those are chickens, they're opportunistic omnivores. I mean, they are like insect-leaning, I guess, omnivores, but nevertheless they, you know, can eat whatever plants, meat, animals, and they gravitate.

to organs and to animal protein in general. And if you just observe nature, that should tell you something of how we as meat-leaning omnivores, I would consider humans to be, what we should be gravitating towards as well. Unfortunately, many of us have lost the taste and desire to eat those things. But that's an acquired, I guess, this taste, is that the right word?

Heidi Moretti (20:42.53)
Mm-hmm.

Heidi Moretti (20:48.21)
Right, yeah definitely I grew up with some of it, you know, I can't convince my own family too much of it, but I still get it in with, you know, my supplements and whenever I can otherwise pate and things like that.

Michael Kummer (21:03.214)
Alright, so maybe let's talk about, because you made a very important point, you know, I mean, maybe, arguably, hypothetically, let's say, you know, eating only meat for a while and removing everything else from your diet might be, might lead to the quickest success in terms of healing your gut. Most people, for various reasons, are not going to do that and can't even wrap their head around eating something that everyone tells them causes, you know, cancer and heart attacks and whatnot.

Heidi Moretti (21:21.954)
Mm-hmm.

Heidi Moretti (21:33.442)
Mm-hmm.

Michael Kummer (21:34.262)
So what do you do to kind of lead people, you know, towards the goal of eating better, of removing certain foods without telling them, you know, starting tomorrow, you cannot have any of the stuff that you have been eating for the past few decades. How do you approach that? What are some of the...

I mean, you already mentioned processed carbs. I think that's more or less a no brainer. I think most people should understand that processed carbs aren't good for you. Sugar, added sugar isn't good for you. If someone, you know, doesn't understand that, it's probably a difficult conversation. But most people understand, right? But from there, where do you go? And then maybe in particular, just to already put it out there, what do you tell someone who is vegan, you know?

Heidi Moretti (22:00.602)
Right.

Heidi Moretti (22:13.078)
this, right? Right.

Michael Kummer (22:23.746)
because a lot of people come to me and say, I can't eat meat because I'm vegan, so what can I do to fix my IBS? And I'm like...

Heidi Moretti (22:24.288)
What?

Heidi Moretti (22:31.914)
Yeah.

Michael Kummer (22:32.806)
I don't know, you know, I mean, I wish I could help you, but what is your take on this?

Heidi Moretti (22:38.662)
Yeah, it's I think you know and I you know lots of people these days come and go in and out of veganism and I respect those decisions and you know for whatever reasons they choose that and you know it's they're doing the best they can for what they know and I'm not saying there's no chance you could be vegan and be healthy because I think there's a chance You know some people can do it. Okay, and be fine

The average person, however, I think it makes them, their gut's pretty wrecked. And I think regardless of whether they do it well or not, whatever the protein choice they choose or not, there's just so many anti-nutrients in those foods. And that's nature's design is to make plants hospitable to whoever eats them because they also wanna survive. It's their...

natural defense to cause issues for us and deter us from eating them. So eventually most vegans I've met do not stay vegan.

Michael Kummer (23:47.646)
I think it's like 80% or so return to eating meat because of health issues, right?

Heidi Moretti (23:52.246)
right that they become sick and whether it be they can't have any energy or their guts wrecked or both and I think it's just you know that they have to come to that on their own if they usually they aren't coming to me you know if they're coming to me they're ready for change and feeling better so you know I think it's yeah

Michael Kummer (24:14.936)
Right.

Heidi Moretti (24:20.786)
But for the average person who's been told, you know, all these conflicting, eat plant-based and they're confused. And what I tend to do for people is that at that point, just talk to them about the attributes that you're getting in, you know, whole foods. Like say, why you need more protein or, and I think that's definitely like a low-hanging fruit for many people just eat more quality protein at meals because...

You know, it's the structure of the gut lining. It's the structure of muscles. You're gonna feel stronger. You're gonna feel less bloating. And actually there's research to show that high quality protein foods actually promote a healthy gut microbiota. And that's fairly new. I talk a lot about that in my book, that no, it's not necessarily fiber, but high quality protein that really helps.

the gut microbiome and I think that's definitely an about face for a lot of people. I don't think many people have actually read that research and I've even talked to my peers about and they look at me like, what are you talking about? I've never heard of that and I'm like, oh no, this is real, it's real new research of how you know, and even like, you know, animal protein based compounds like colostrum, we've talked about before and I use that as really beneficial for the gut.

lining in the gut microbiome and definitely an animal based product but at a minimum you can do that helps heal the gut lining things like that. So my approach tends to be more of like well not really like negating their thoughts about like plant-based but to point out that well these proteins are going to absorb really well. Let's just see what happens if you're you know you go without

you know, that triggers. Like, the main thing, they may tell me something I already know, like, okay, I eat these foods and I feel bloated on these days, and then I kind of hone in on that and say, okay, well then let's work around that and just, you know, try to do without those foods that are really triggering you. So whether it's, you know, you know, onions, garlic, you know, those are the high fermentable foods that can be triggering, you know, so just getting rid of those, you know, if you have to have

Michael Kummer (26:31.834)
All right.

Heidi Moretti (26:38.122)
you know, something starchy have just white rice or, you know, some, because it's not as fermentable, those types of things. So.

Michael Kummer (26:45.328)
Yeah.

That's funny enough, when we look at how can we incorporate certain carbohydrates and soaking white rice, not brown rice, which has more of the antinutrients, but plain white rice that was stripped of all the stuff that you don't want to have. Because if you think about it, those carbs, they're not really a source of nutrients. You eat them because you like the taste or the fill you up or whatever, but we don't eat them because, oh, there are so many good B vitamins or whatever in rice. There isn't.

Soaked white rice, we can handle that fairly well and we have that on occasion. And much better than many of the other starchy veggies, maybe even potatoes. We've even experimented with fermenting sweet potatoes, peeled them.

Heidi Moretti (27:22.22)
Mm-hmm.

Michael Kummer (27:34.682)
cut them, ferment them in a brine for a couple of days. And it's better than regular potatoes, but we still feel more of an impact than just having plain old rice that was soaked overnight, and then the water discarded. What's your take on raw milk for liver fat? You don't have that in Montana either?

Heidi Moretti (27:50.106)
Right.

Heidi Moretti (27:54.978)
I wish I could get my hands on some. No, I think it's... I think it's coming around. It's legal. But it's very difficult to find. I know somebody was telling me the other day it's available in the store. I'm just not a milk drinker. I like milk products, but milk drinking. Do you have raw milk?

Michael Kummer (28:17.962)
Mm-hmm. All right. Yeah, I mean, it's sold as pet food here in Georgia because it's a leak otherwise, but yes, we do consume quite a bit of... I have been making kefir for a while.

Heidi Moretti (28:21.734)
Okay.

Heidi Moretti (28:28.088)
Bye.

Michael Kummer (28:29.13)
But now we just, you know, drink it, you know, straight up. My son really likes it. My daughter doesn't like it. Kathy, my wife doesn't care for it either. But my son and I, we consume quite a bit of milk and we just bought a property, you know, and we're going to have our own dairy cows. I'm looking forward to getting the colostrum and, you know, cream and all of those things, like straight from the teeth, so to say, every morning.

Heidi Moretti (28:45.133)
Bye guys.

Heidi Moretti (28:50.422)
That's awesome. Yeah, I grew up having my aunt, you know, like goats and raw goat milk. I had this conversation with my aunt. She's like, oh man, it's just the best. And you know, people just who can't tolerate anything else, the raw milk is it. And then I totally believe it. I've read tons of accounts of it. And it's really just more alive food that has, you know, all of the things we need, enzymes and bioactive compounds that just...

Michael Kummer (28:56.492)
Mm-hmm.

Michael Kummer (29:12.952)
Yeah.

Heidi Moretti (29:19.21)
Yeah, I fully believe it's great. And I mean, I kind of understand the whole rationale behind pasteurization, but it makes it dead. It makes it not good. It's good. Nutrition.

Michael Kummer (29:29.366)
Yeah, I can't prove it at the end of the day. And I can tell when both my wife and I, when we consume pasteurized milk, even if it's like the low temp pasteurization, I think that's like the best milk you can buy. And even if it's organic, grass-fed, A2A2, it checks all the marks, but it's still pasteurized. I break out, my skin breaks out here on the side. Bad breath, so you can tell there is something going on in the digestive system that's not good, and it never happens with raw milk.

Heidi Moretti (29:39.478)
Yeah.

Heidi Moretti (29:57.198)
Mm-hmm. I see, yeah, that's great. Yeah, I hope it gets traction going and I think that's, it's definitely healing and I'm all on board. If I can get my hands on some, it's the big thing. Yeah, it'll be great. Yeah, that's it, yeah.

Michael Kummer (30:12.596)
Right.

Michael Kummer (30:18.774)
All right, so to recap, you know, so you focus on making sure, you know, your patients get enough protein, you know, ideally from animal-based sources, high quality animal-based sources that helps with the gut. And by, I guess, by increasing your protein intake, you decrease your intake of some of the other things that might cause it automatically. Right. And so that probably helps on both sides, so to say. Right.

Heidi Moretti (30:25.492)
No.

Heidi Moretti (30:35.326)
Absolutely. Yes.

Heidi Moretti (30:43.55)
Yeah, they lose weight usually, right? And I'm always happy about that and get lower lean. And yeah, it's a win-win and brain health improves when you just don't have all that brain fog from all that junk. You know, and I, yeah, definitely incorporation of, you know, plants within, you know, and I do use plants and herbs and a fair bit, you know, especially herbs and medicinally and whether it's for this or that, you know, but.

I could tell you like peppermint being one of the easiest, quickest remedies for a lot of IBS pain and spasms. I've had such great success, people just, you know, I'm like, just try this. I end up like, I'm going to just buying it for my family, or just please try it, you know, things like that. And usually they're not disappointed. Just getting things, you know, because...

Michael Kummer (31:22.743)
Uh.

Heidi Moretti (31:41.566)
regardless of what I believe, not all my family members are on board with what I believe or why friends or just, so sometimes the herbal remedies are at least help symptoms in ways that don't have the negative side effects of drug therapy, so.

Michael Kummer (31:56.354)
Right. Yeah, no, absolutely. We've also peppermint capsules at home. The other thing that we noticed is, have you ever experimented with ozone capsules? Like ozone suspended in olive oil?

Heidi Moretti (32:04.142)
We will.

Heidi Moretti (32:14.222)
I have

Heidi Moretti (32:17.63)
Well, maybe slightly different. Mine was like a magnesium-ozon compound. It's been a bit, but what did you notice?

Michael Kummer (32:25.03)
Well, so, you know, anytime, you know, since we have animals, you know, the kids never wash their hands, you know, they grab the chickens, they cuddle with them, and occasionally they get something in their stomach and, you know, they feel like a little funky in their stomach for a couple of hours. And we've noticed that with ozone oil, I don't even know the exact mechanism, I know how it works against, like, you know, bacterial overgrowth, etc. But it seems so the ozone suspended or the...

Heidi Moretti (32:47.788)
Mm-hmm.

Michael Kummer (32:50.414)
The ozonides, I guess it's called, because ozone reacts immediately, whatever it comes in contact with, right? So it's not a stable molecule. But those ozonides that are formed when the ozone gets suspended in olive oil, those seem to be inflammatory in a sense that it up regulates your immune system temporarily. So it acts like as a mild hormetic stressor of sort, right? To get your immune system to respond more forcefully, maybe.

Heidi Moretti (32:55.694)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Heidi Moretti (33:12.014)
Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm.

Heidi Moretti (33:19.682)
Right?

Michael Kummer (33:20.33)
And it can also destroy bacteria and viruses on contact, which is one of the reasons why ozone is used like in swimming pools and stuff, you know, to as a disinfectant or even in dental practices. And I've been experimenting with ozone, like, you know, as an IV and, you know, different, different modalities, but the ozone capsules, they are really, I've, we found convenient and effective for like acute gut issues. You know, you just pop two of those and issues go away relatively quickly. Now, obviously, you know, that's not a...

Heidi Moretti (33:30.184)
night.

Michael Kummer (33:50.123)
It's a bandaid at the end of the day, it's not going to fix the root cause. But if you're in a penchant, you're somewhere out and about, you don't have anything else, you don't have your fresh peppermint that you might be growing at home for that matter. Those capsules seem to be very effective too.

Heidi Moretti (33:59.661)
Thank you.

Heidi Moretti (34:04.766)
Interesting. Yeah, I'll definitely have to look more into that. I think, yeah, it's kind of similar along the lines. Have you tried activated charcoal, like a coconut charcoal, kind of a similar concept that it just binds everything in it and like around it? I don't find it. It works in some scenarios, like, say, if I eat spicy foods for me, it doesn't work like if I'm eating gluten and.

Michael Kummer (34:12.537)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Heidi Moretti (34:29.738)
which I do occasionally. I've been, I've definitely like gone back to fully gluten-free. I go in and out of that because of, you know, more than anything is for me, the skin issues that occur when I eat gluten, but also just gut distress. I'm 100% confident I shouldn't eat gluten. But the, you know, when it comes to the charcoal, yeah, it does really.

Michael Kummer (34:35.394)
Okay.

Michael Kummer (34:44.11)
Right.

Michael Kummer (34:52.235)
Right, right.

Heidi Moretti (34:59.586)
have a benefit for heartburn and IBS, especially if you catch it right when you're having that trigger food. Or for me, when I occasionally have alcohol, which is perhaps once every two months. I'm not a drinker. It's pretty negative for me. But occasionally do. I carry my charcoal with me to the bar and I'm fine. I'm fine. I can sleep. That's it.

Michael Kummer (35:24.107)
One capsule and one shot. One capsule, one shot.

Heidi Moretti (35:28.026)
Yeah, exactly, you know. And then I think that's also, I forgot to mention a low-hanging fruit. I don't think everybody, I think most people don't realize how toxic alcohol is to the gut lining. And it's just, it's just a no-go if you want to have a healthy gut. And it's, you know, I can't say it's easy to give up, but it's definitely a smart thing to do or limit.

Michael Kummer (35:38.958)
Yeah.

Michael Kummer (35:51.478)
And with alcohol really is, its effects really linger for several days, especially as far as the gut is concerned. If there is a disruption or a change in your gut microbiota because of alcohol consumption, the gut is, I think, an organ that can heal relatively quickly overall. It can regenerate cells incredibly quickly. But nevertheless, if there is a shift in your...

Heidi Moretti (36:10.069)
Yes.

Michael Kummer (36:19.598)
bacterial composition, you know, getting that back to baseline or where it should be can take several days. So even if you say, oh, I only drink, you know, three times a week, you know, that's probably enough to keep it perpetually in a bad state. Right. If you do like Monday, Wednesday, you know, Friday or something like that, you know, you're going to be always impacted and never give you a gut enough break or your microbiota to recover.

Heidi Moretti (36:33.394)
Exactly. It is.

Heidi Moretti (36:46.394)
Absolutely and hormonally. I can't speak for men but I know it's, I talk to countless people that women, you know, just cannot, like their moods suffer a ton. Just wondering once in a while and it's, you know, I don't know that everybody's as in tune as they need to be on that one. But it's definitely a take home message is if you have gut issues, it's just, it's something you got that's got to go. It really does.

Michael Kummer (37:13.923)
And with most.

Heidi Moretti (37:15.03)
blocks all nutrients, you know, almost every nutrient is blocked by alcohol. You don't have to just...

Michael Kummer (37:16.451)
Yes.

Yeah. So having a steak with a glass of red wine, you only get like half out of the steak that you could otherwise. So if you drink, drink at noon and then wait until dinner to have your food.

Heidi Moretti (37:25.526)
Right, exactly. Right.

Heidi Moretti (37:32.19)
Right. And I don't think, you know, there's the alcohol that they have in the Mediterranean. It's more about the, you know, resveratrol than it is about the alcohol as far as the long-term cardiovascular benefits anyway. And, you know, and when they look at the traditional Mediterranean diet where red wine is consumed a lot, it's they live in a very sunny place where they have social connections and...

more in touch with nature and it's just a whole, like yeah.

Michael Kummer (38:03.586)
It's not the wine that's making certain people healthier in those regions. And, you know, there is, I mean, probably many people have seen it, you know, that a new vegan propaganda film on Netflix about the blue zones, which is a complete BS, you know, and, and so, you know, it's not the wine, you know, it's not the plants that people eat in those regions. If there are regions where people actually get older, you know, if you take all the

Heidi Moretti (38:17.163)
Right?

is.

Michael Kummer (38:31.706)
you know, pension fraud and then missing birth certificates out of the equation, whatever is left, you know, it's probably other factors, you know, and not, not the alcohol and not the, not, not the plants that they might or might not be eating, but yeah. Um, so what other, I mean, you know, I, it's, it's a kind of a little bit of a dangerous topic, I think, because if you mention, you know, supplements that can help like, you know, peppermint or ozone or a charcoal or, you know, colostrum.

Heidi Moretti (38:37.067)
Right?

Heidi Moretti (38:41.71)
Right.

Heidi Moretti (38:46.622)
For sure

Michael Kummer (39:01.634)
You know, a lot of people think, well, you know, I can, or even, you know, maybe, you know, digestive enzymes. I've noticed that in particular in the combination with gluten, you know, there are certain digestive enzymes that if you take with your meal, it breaks apart. You know, those things that are hard to digest, or that might be causing issues. And you're probably going to have significantly fewer issues. The problem with all of that is, you know, people use those as band-aids, right? They continue eating a regular diet and then just, you know, try to mitigate as much as they can with supplements. And that's obviously.

Heidi Moretti (39:25.483)
video.

Michael Kummer (39:31.87)
not sustainable and not ideal, you know, so to be careful with that. But if you're, I guess, on a path to healing and you just want to feel better while you do that, you know, and if you're not like me who, you know, just can change the diet starting today, you know, and then change everything without looking back, most people don't do that. So if they need kind of to ease themselves in for those, you know, certain supplements can help, you know, ease the pain, I guess.

Heidi Moretti (40:00.334)
Absolutely.

Michael Kummer (40:01.874)
and get them, you know, keep them motivated, I guess, to keep going.

Heidi Moretti (40:06.902)
Absolutely, yeah, I think that's where, you know, the meeting them where they're at as far as just the seeing the potential to feel better. It's, you know, adding in, you know, enzymes do really. And I think, you know, especially in the inflamed gut because the inflamed gut is not making enough enzymes. It's, so those things can be really beneficial and the risk being quite low because they're all food derived, but.

But I agree, it is a crutch to agree. They're one I don't use a lot for myself, except for a rescue. For people who are not willing to make as many changes as you and I would be willing to do, yeah, I think it can be helpful. And I think the fact that they can see the difference quickly is an aha moment. This does not necessarily take Prilosec to feel better.

Michael Kummer (40:44.472)
Right.

Heidi Moretti (41:05.174)
It's a far better use than the prescription drugs and over the counter drugs. Because if you talk about, say for example, ameprazole and the risks of long-term, risks of memory loss and dementia and cardiovascular disease and bone loss, and the list goes on and on, and just getting someone off of that is like a huge win. So, yeah.

Michael Kummer (41:33.844)
Right. Yeah. Maybe let's talk about that real quick before we wrap it up. Acid reflux and heartburn, right? The standard, if you go to a doctor, say if acid reflux, you get acid blockers, right? Based on what I have learned, the issue when you have heartburn is not really too much.

acid, it's that the acid spills up from your small intestines because your stomach isn't producing enough to digest the food. So by blocking all of that, it's kind of, it's really kind of productive and it has a lot of, you know, side effects in the long-term that are absolutely not good, right? So what, what can people do if they, and the other, similar to this, I think is.

If people have not eaten meat, animal proteins, animal fats in a long time, and they suddenly, you know, start incorporating more of that, they might not have, as you said, you know, enough enzymes to break down the fats and the proteins, and they might feel, you know, nauseous or heartburn, you know, etc. What can people do to kind of, you know, help their body make more of the, you know, bile juices and digestive enzymes without, you know, feeling sick or bad in the process?

Heidi Moretti (42:31.363)
Mm-hmm.

Heidi Moretti (42:47.998)
Yeah, I think it's, yeah, feeling the heartburn. You know, I actually think I've seen it the opposite. I mean, tell me if you've seen differently, but when someone ditches a lot of like plant-based carbs and then adds more meat, they actually have less heartburn. It may take a few days, but I think because protein, animal protein specifically, increases stomach acid and that, you need acid in the stomach.

for the lower sphincter out of the stomach to open up. When people have too low of stomach acid, it causes the stomach to have improper emptying. And so then low acid can actually be more of a trigger for reflux or heartburn than the opposite. So actually too low of acid is a big problem in...

in the vegetarian diet and vegan diet perhaps is why they may have problems. Again, adding enzymes in at that time is helpful I think a lot of the times. Just to reduce any transition period like that, they're going to be helpful. They don't have any risks and so that's where they come in handy.

Michael Kummer (44:05.784)
Right.

Heidi Moretti (44:12.306)
But I don't know, maybe there could be the exception to the rule. You know, if they drastically change quickly, you know, they might suffer a bit because, you know, your gut gets accustomed to whatever you're doing. So, you know, shifts definitely can create some discomfort no matter what you do. But yeah, I think the use, and then I forgot to mention too, that the use of those stomach at-blocking medications, I

Michael Kummer (44:20.152)
Right.

Michael Kummer (44:28.642)
Yeah.

Heidi Moretti (44:42.238)
are people are four times more likely to get admitted to the hospital with any kind of like severe infection. So because there's no stomach acid, it creates an imbalance in the gut bacteria, allowing for harmful bacteria to enter the body. That's a major risk with these drugs and they're rarely the answer. And the problem is they may be prescribed them for.

Michael Kummer (44:49.486)
Let's go for it.

Michael Kummer (45:08.334)
Right.

Heidi Moretti (45:11.498)
whatever reason, but they just continue to get it refilled over and over again mindlessly without the knowledge of the bad long-term side effects. So, yeah.

Michael Kummer (45:22.87)
Right. What's your take on apple cider vinegar?

Heidi Moretti (45:27.602)
Oh, I love apple cider vinegar. I think almost everybody responds well to it. And it's kind of a proof of concept, like say if you feel better when you have it, that's often a sign your stomach's too low in acid. Although I think there's more to it than that because it's got these fermented compounds in them. And I've never felt like my stomach acid was low, but I always feel good still when I eat it. I think it's the fermentation and.

Michael Kummer (45:29.238)
in the context.

Heidi Moretti (45:54.946)
There really is very little scientific evidence of it being beneficial. Although one interesting study I was trying to find for a patient because they got a lot of muscle cramping was that it helps calm down the nerves. Weirdly enough, there was a study about it being good for the nervous system. Again, that's good for the stomach too, but yeah. What's your experience with it?

Michael Kummer (46:14.542)
Right.

Michael Kummer (46:18.414)
Right.

Um, I mean, I, I don't, I don't use it regularly. I've used it for a while just to experiment, you know, to get like my, uh, to prepare my stomach, like for a big meal coming down the pike. Um, but the only thing that I'm.

I'm cautious about is when I drink it like in liquid form, if it's a capsule, it's not a problem, but it can potentially cause issues with your teeth if you expose the acid in the apple cider vinegar to your teeth or your teeth to the apple cider vinegar.

And so that's the only concern, you know, when people drink that a lot, there might be downsides. And as far as the dental health is concerned, so I kind of prefer, you know, capsules like gel capsules, you know, where it bypasses, you know, your, your teeth and, and goes where it should go. But yeah, I'm not a regular user of it, but occasionally I've, well, one thing I've noticed, I don't have a lot of hiccups, but every so often when I have it and I take two spoons of apple cider vinegar, it's gone immediately.

Heidi Moretti (47:07.671)
Right?

Heidi Moretti (47:20.974)
amazing. Yeah.

Michael Kummer (47:22.462)
I don't know why or how, but it works every single time.

Heidi Moretti (47:24.79)
Maybe it's a nervous system thing. Yeah, that's fascinating. It's a good remedy then. Yeah, maybe it is the innervation that it calms down because the diaphragm is for whatever reason, not misfiring, you know. So yeah, I agree. No, I think it's a huge one as far as, you know, there's also the test for stomach acid you can do where you have baking soda and if you...

Michael Kummer (47:29.687)
Yeah.

Michael Kummer (47:36.502)
Yeah. Bro. Well. Yeah.

Heidi Moretti (47:53.482)
You know, it's a time test if you don't burp after eating baking soda or, you know, a small amount, a quarter teaspoon. It's, you don't want to eat a lot of it, but if you don't, you, you know, it's baking soda and acid react and they bubble up and so you get a burp. If you don't get a burp, you don't have enough stomach acid. So that's a fairly, and the reason stomach acid again is important. It kills off.

Michael Kummer (48:01.859)
Right.

Michael Kummer (48:08.675)
Right.

Heidi Moretti (48:18.71)
dangerous microbes, but it also helps digest protein. It helps digest the food you're gonna eat, and then, you know, even fights off harmful bacteria that may come your way. So blocking that acid is dangerous, unless you absolutely have to, for valid reasons, like you've had a stomach bleed or an ulcer. So there are times and places, of course. So, but they're usually short-term, and they need to be short.

Michael Kummer (48:47.35)
Right. All right, cool. Well, thank you very much. I think with that we're going to wrap it up. But before we do, what is the title of your book and where can people find it?

Heidi Moretti (48:56.91)
Yes, my new book is released in July. It's called Gut Fix. You can find it on Amazon. You can also find it on Barnes & Noble and on my website, which is The Healthy RD.

Michael Kummer (49:10.334)
All right. Sounds good. Well, I'm going to include all of that in the show notes so people can find that, click on it and also, you know, your social profile and, um, you know, any information you've given me so people can reach out to you, find you, follow you, et cetera, uh, with that, we're going to wrap it up. I thank you so much for spending your time with me, for talking about gut issues. Something that unfortunately affects, uh, I want to say most people in this country, at least.

Heidi Moretti (49:34.26)
Absolutely.

Michael Kummer (49:35.37)
And so hopefully, whoever is listening or listened can get a couple of tips and fix those issues because they absolutely can be fixed. There is no need to live with those issues every single day and to maybe plan your trips around, where toilets are available, et cetera. I've heard horror stories from people who live an absolutely miserable life because of their gut issues. There is hope, there is a fix. You can cure them by just making a couple of simple lifestyle choices, including diet, nutrient-dense, eating nutrient-dense foods

mitigating some of the stress and that's it. I mean it's fairly simple. It's not easy but it's simple.

Heidi Moretti (50:12.17)
Absolutely agreed. Very simple. Thank you so much, Michael.

Michael Kummer (50:16.15)
Alright, cool. Thank you. Appreciate it. And I'll ping you when the opposite is out.

Heidi Moretti (50:22.375)
All right, great. And should I let it load or is it, it says it's 97% loaded. Do I just let it finish?

Michael Kummer (50:28.438)
Yeah, I think as soon as I stop recording, it might take a few more seconds and then we should be good to go.

Heidi Moretti (50:34.526)
Alright, great. Well, have a good weekend. Bye bye, thanks again.

Michael Kummer (50:36.398)
All right, sounds good. Thank you, bye.

Heidi Moretti (51:09.695)
Is it? Okay.

Heidi Moretti (51:14.05)
Are we good to go?

Heidi Moretti (51:18.718)
Okay, great.

Heidi Moretti (51:24.406)
Oh.

How do I stop that?

Heidi Moretti (51:47.512)
Okay.

Heidi Moretti (51:52.226)
Very good. All right, see you later.