16: How To Live an Animal-based Ancestral-focused Lifestyle with a Family

Michael Kummer (00:02.442)
Alright, welcome back to the Primarchief Podcast. In this episode I'm going to talk about how you can manage or live an animal-based and ancestral-focused lifestyle in a family setting. Because let's face it, living a healthy life in our modern world is relatively easy if you're the only one in the picture and if you can do whatever you want to. But things become a bit more complicated or complex when there's a partner or a spouse involved.

and even more so with kids. So in this episode I'm gonna share how we've navigated some of the more challenging aspects of living an animal-based and ancestral focused or influenced lifestyle, including nutrition, exercise, sleep and even hormesis and stress management, because we've noticed that even at a relatively young age, you know, with you know obviously among adults, but even with kids they can get stressed.

and in our modern lives, you know, they shouldn't be stressed, but they do get stressed. And so, you know, I want to talk about it and see and share with you how we've navigated some of those issues. I'm going to share some of the tips and tricks that have worked for us and also some of the mistakes that we have made, especially when between the adults, you know, and also with kids. And I also share the story of Kathy and I, how we started

making changes and how difficult it was at times because we were i want to say roughly on the same page or at least in the same book as far as improving our health but we approached things at a completely different pace and speed you know when i set my sights on something i go all in full speed full throttle and i bulldoze over everything that's in my way to get to my goal

And so there were issues in the beginning when I decided, you know, that I'm going to change my diet. And since my wife was the one cooking for us, you know, that change impacted her directly. And so I'll share, you know, some of those issues and how we kind of navigated that and maybe some, you know, general tips that you can apply if you and your partner or spouse are not exactly on the same page. And then

Michael Kummer (02:26.498)
But a good portion of that episode is gonna be specifically around kids or families with kids. Because I think you can figure it out, you know, as adults easier, I wanna say, than, you know, with kids who get influenced, who might not be, might not feel comfortable being different or eating differently when they go to a birthday party, etc. So we're gonna talk about that. But let's maybe start out with, you know, the adults. Maybe...

I'm gonna share the story of Kathy and I. We actually began making changes to our lifestyle when we saw a documentary on Netflix. I've mentioned it several times before on the blog. I think it was fat, sick, and nearly dead or something like this. And the core or one of the core messages in that documentary was how much added sugars the average American consumes throughout the year.

And it was shocking amounts. I mean, bags of sugar that we consume every year. And we did at that time too, because we drank sugar lot and beverages and processed foods and all kinds of things that you shouldn't be eating if your goal is to maintain or achieve optimal health. And...

And so we said, you know what, we're gonna cut out added sugars. All foods that have added sugars go out. And we did this together. We were on the same page. We had the same goals and we went at the same speed. And so for my wife, it was like, well, great. You know, we removed added sugars from our lives. You know, now we are good. There is nothing else, you know, we need to worry about. But I kept digging and digging and doing more research and then, you know, being influenced by friends who were farther ahead in their health journey.

And at some point I realized that well, you know, even without added sugars, there's so much in our diet that we shouldn't be eating. And so it was literally almost overnight. It was overnight. I woke up one morning and I told Kathy, I'm gonna do I'm gonna do paleo diet. I'm gonna be done with eating, you know, standard American diet and she's like, well, you know, I'm the one cooking. So if you want to do paleo, that means I have to cook now.

Michael Kummer (04:44.91)
two sets of or two different types of foods, one for you, you know, with your crazy diet and one for everyone else. I'm sorry, but you know, that's not gonna happen and we got into an argument. I mean a really serious argument because I could not wrap my head around, you know, why would you not change your diet if we know, you know, and that assumed that I assumed at this point already that we know, you know, but I knew.

You know, I never shared any details. I never, you know, went to her and said, Hey, you know, look at what I found. You know, it turns out that consuming, you know, grains and legumes is not good for you because of, you know, ABC. I just assumed she knows what I do. And that was not the case. And so there was a huge problem. And so we kind of, you know, I, you know, I got really upset and I'm like, Oh, whatever, you know, then I'm going to continue eating, you know, standard American diet, you know, and we all gonna die, you know, kind of, that was my.

I was really upset but also realizing that I cannot push through with this because there was a risk of breaking our marriage apart. And so I did nothing for a while. I was just being a little bit upset that we didn't make any changes.

In the meantime, you know, Kathy actually started doing her own research because, you know, she thought, well, you know, if I come up with this, there's gotta be something to it. And so she started researching and then at some point she came to me and said, you know what, I think you're right. You know, we need to change our diet. And so we adopted a paleo diet and, and everything was good. You know, we thought great, you know, we, we made that change and now we don't have to do anything else. You know, we, we thought we figured it out. Well, it didn't take long until I

discovered that there is actually more, you know, to that. There is maybe there is a ketogenic diet, you know Apparently all carbs were bad. I thought at that point and so I went back to Kathy and said, you know what? We have to do keto, you know, Paleo is not enough. Keto is the thing that we need to do and she's like, you know Dude, you know, we just made the change to Paleo. It was a very difficult change for me You know, it goes against everything that I was brought up with. I mean, you know

Michael Kummer (06:57.85)
You know the regular diet in Costa Rica where my wife's from is Is based around grains rice and legumes beans, you know, and all of the things we cut out, you know We basically removed a good chunk of her culture dietary wise From her life and now, you know, I come back and say well, it's actually not just that We also need to remove pretty much all carbs, you know from our diet and you know that includes then again

tropical fruits and all of the things that she grew up with. And I did too for it, not with tropical fruits, but with potatoes and starchy vegetables and stuff. But again, for me it was like I usually embrace change and I embrace risk and I embrace the unknown. For me it's challenging, I like that. Not everyone is like that and Kathy is not like that. And so that was the second issue or the second...

time in our relationship when we were like having serious arguments because I again did not, it did not occur to me that just because I know something and I figured something out and I believe in something that someone else is on the same, is at the same stage of that journey. You know it took me a while to get there and I just expect now that I've reached that point or I expect that

that everyone else would catch up immediately instead of giving them the time to reach those same conclusions or similar conclusions. And so again, big issue, but it didn't take long and Kathy did her research and she came up, I said, okay, you know what? I think keto, that's something I'd like to do as well. Fast forward, I said,

Well, I was a little bit smarter at that point, fortunately, but then I discovered carnivore, you know, it's keto, you know, might not be that great. You know, we really, you know, eating only meat is the thing, you know, because plants are just not good. And so, but we approach it differently, you know, and we did better. But I guess that the bottom line here really is that, you know, if both you and your spouse or your partner, you know, agree on the fundamentals of yes, we want to do better. You know, you.

Michael Kummer (09:12.242)
you have to share your concerns and you have to give him or her time to come to, you know, their own conclusions, to do the research and to, you know, walk the walk basically, to go through the journey at, you know, that person's pace, you know, it's not just because you can walk very fast or sprint a certain, you know, going through research very quickly doesn't mean everyone else can or wants to, you know, and...

The second thing to keep in mind is that, you know, making small improvements every day is better than no improvements at all. You know, so there's that one percent rule, you know, do one percent better every day. Well, you know, guess what? In a hundred days, you have done a hundred percent better. So, you know, there are those like me who, you know, jump in with both feet, you know, and do everything within a short period of time, make significant changes very quickly.

But not everyone is like that and that's fine. You know, if your partner likes to take things slowly, you know, Chancellor, if you've been on a standard American diet for most of your life, you know, a couple of more months are not going to make a difference, you know, likely. So give yourself and your partner the time to make those small improvements. Focus on the low-hanging fruits first, you know. What can you do immediately? Cutting out added sugar was certainly a low-hanging fruit, you know.

cutting out processed carbohydrates, another low-hanging fruit. You don't have to do everything perfect right away, just do better every single day, a little bit better, and you'll be on your way. And it's much more doable. It's much more, you're much more likely to continue down that path than going all in, getting all frustrated, and then going back to your old dietary habits, or whatever the habits might be. It doesn't have to be nutrition. It was just, in our case, it was nutrition was the main thing.

But then, you know, later, of course, we discovered senoestrogens. We discovered, you know, all the chemicals in regular clothing, you know. So there were more and more changes coming up. And now we've reached a point where I feel like we've tackled all the big things and we are on the same page and anything that's coming up in the future, I think we are much more capable of handling together at the same time.

Michael Kummer (11:31.214)
pace because I've also learned that we don't have to do everything overnight. You know, we can take smaller steps and I'm fine with that because we are already doing so many things right now. We are optimizing. You know, I feel like unless and maybe at some point we discovered that, I don't know, living in a regular, you know, living indoors is bad for you then, you know, that might be another big one, but beyond that, I think we are more like optimizing. And, you know, one thing that's that, that I've learned and that my wife has learned as well.

you know, in dealing with me or us dealing with each other is that, you know, some people respond to logical reasoning and some people respond to emotional reasoning. I'm very much a logical person, you know, for me if it makes sense, if it's logical, you know, I go for it. You know, emotions play no role in my decision making. My wife is the exact opposite, you know, she is more on the emotional side and not so much on the logical side. So we kind of have to bring those two together by me.

you know, forgetting logic for a moment and trying to be emotional as difficult as it is and, you know, vice versa with my wife and that has helped us to kind of get on the same page or pace quicker than we've done in the past. So that was just, you know, a little story, background story between, you know, my wife and I, between the adults now. Of course, if, you know, if you're a carnivore and your spouse is vegan,

I don't know what to tell you. I would not be able to handle that to be perfectly honest. And there's got to be some common ground. But even so, I would argue that if one is both the carnivores as well as the vegans, I think both want the same thing. Do better for themselves, for their health, for the environment, for the animals. I think we all want the same things. In those two extreme examples, we just go about completely different, have a different approach to it.

I don't think the vegan one makes any sense whatsoever, but you know, that's from my vantage point. But again, you know, the foundation, I guess, is the same and if you're two, you know, grown-ups, you should have or should be able to have a logical discussion. Logically again for me, you should have a reasonable discussion, you know, on how to approach those things. And there might be a middle ground, you know, I'm not saying that all plants are bad and certainly, you know, meat is not...

Michael Kummer (13:46.05)
bad, obviously, otherwise I wouldn't be eating it so much. But that's just from an adult perspective. The rest of the podcast here, let's focus a little bit about more on kids, because I think that's even more complicated. And of course, whenever there are kids involved, if the adults are not on the same page, it's a nightmare. So you get on the same page between the parents, if there are kids involved, before trying to influence

how you wanna handle your kids or the family as a whole. So let's talk about nutrition first because that's one of the, I think the main sticking points really in many families, how to eat not only at home, but also when you're outside, when you're at birthday parties and things like this. And it's very obvious that you need to set an example. It doesn't help to tell your kids how they should be eating if you're not doing...

yourself. So if you're munching chips on the couch and watching TV in the evening, how come you can tell your kids not to eat chips? I mean, that doesn't make any sense. You need to lead by example. But even so, and we'll talk about this in the mistakes section, don't assume that you're the only one setting examples, good or bad. There are many other influencing factors beyond you.

And we've noticed this and we're going to talk about this in a bit, but you need to be an example. You know, you talk the talk and walk the walk, obviously, otherwise your kids are not going to are less likely to follow suit. You know, the second thing that I think is incredibly important is to control your kids' environment. And what that means is, you know, only purchase food that you want your kids to eat. You know, if you have stuff in the pantry that they shouldn't be eating, then, you know, why is it at home?

Is it for you? Then again, why are you eating it, but your kids can't? I mean, there are obviously some exceptions like alcohol or maybe coffee or things that are more detrimental to a kid's health than they are to an adult's health, even though one could argue alcohol and coffee is not ideal for adults either. But beyond that, don't buy stuff that you don't want your kids to eat. And it's... We've noticed that...

Michael Kummer (16:11.754)
We have significantly few arguments and whining with kids if they can have whatever we have at home You know, there is no discussion. No, no, you cannot have this or that now or you know, don't eat the candy If there is no candy if there is no processed junk food at home And if there is only food at home that your kids can generally eat whenever they are hungry There is no discussion, you know when the kids come as a hey, you know, I'm hungry. Well go and find food

easy as that. Now there is some nuance to that because you know we are trying to make sure that our kids focus their meal intake on protein and not on carbohydrates. Now I'm not saying that carbohydrates are always evil especially the type of carbs that we have at home like you know seasonal fruits etc raw honey and so on

But still, you know, there is maybe a residual discussion point left for us, you know, when we say, well, you know, eat your protein first before you touch your carbs. You know, that's one of the things we still have, you know, not arguments about well with the little one more so than with the older one. But, you know, beyond the type of food we have, whatever they find, they can generally eat, you know. And the other thing we try to do consistently, because they keep forgetting and need refreshers to have age appropriate discussions.

about how your lifestyle choices, how your dietary choices influence how we feel and how we look. And it's not about body shaming or anything, but, you know, if the kids ask, you know, why is this person, you know, three times as big as you or daddy and sitting in a cart at, you know, at the grocery store because why can't he walk, you know, by himself? Why does he need an electric cart?

I have no issues telling him well because that person has likely made a lot of poor dietary choices and other lifestyle choices that cost You know not only the physique but also, you know the consequences of not being mobile, you know We have those discussions, you know all the time and we try to Make our kids Listen to their bodies and to kind of understand that how eating certain foods makes them feel

Michael Kummer (18:28.254)
And a very good example is with our little one, he was born prematurely, way early and was in a NICU for almost two months. Fortunately he's doing great and everything, but his digestion was funky from the get-go in comparison to other kids, to our daughter for example. And so even things like bananas, he gets soft stools and he loves bananas.

Michael Kummer (18:57.766)
your poop is, you know, when you eat bananas. You know, pay attention to this and make a connection. And he now understands that eating bananas, you know, leads to, you know, stomach ache, soft stools, etc. And so he now avoids bananas, not because we don't allow him to have them, but because he's aware that they don't make him feel great. And, you know, having those discussions and teaching your kids to really

listen to their bodies and figure out what does food do to me is important because they can then figure out themselves that you know Cause and effect, you know And no I cannot have certain things because it doesn't make me feel good eating other things makes me feel great So I'm gonna gravitate to those foods and we have those discussions all the time because of course they keep forgetting and etc Etc, but it's really you know, keeping that on the top of their minds is important and we also explained them that well look

Different people have different dietary habits, you know, it's and very often, you know, when we go somewhere and you know, people eat candy and they drink, you know, sugar water and stuff like that, we tell them, you know, look, the parents probably don't know what that is not good for them. You know, they don't know. That's one of the reasons why daddy does what he does, you know, trying to teach other people and to share information so they can do better as well. But not everyone is on the same page. Not everyone does.

things how we do and that's okay. You know we focus on us, we listen to our bodies and we do what we can to feel as good as we can every single day. And you know don't be afraid you know if other people ask you about your or your kids dietary habits. You know very often we go somewhere and you know they offer hey do you want a fruit juice or a you know a Gatorade or what have you and we said the kids are in their eight and ten now.

They say, no thank you, we don't drink that or we don't eat that. And if they are asking, why is it, or if the parents then ask us, we have no issue saying we are doing this because, you know, ABC, you know. And we take it kind of as a teaching moment, you know, to explain or to explain, you know, why we do things a certain way and why we don't consume certain things. And, you know, then it's up to the other party to either say, well, I don't care or you're crazy or...

Michael Kummer (21:19.838)
Oh, thanks for the I didn't know that, you know, but how I don't care how other people take, you know, the information, but we take it as a teaching moment. We share what we know. And if other people want to leverage that information, great. If not, that's fine with me, too. I'll just sleep as you know, just as fine. In terms of especially social activities, you know, we plan ahead and we bring our own food, you know, for the kids. They've even since they were young, they had their own lunch boxes.

You know, every birthday party, typically when we go somewhere, you know, it's pizza and cake and, you know, and junk food, basically. And so we usually bring our own food and, you know, and the kids are fine with it. In the beginning was a little bit, oh, you know, they are the odd ones out, but now they, you know, they seem to be embracing it. You know, they get, and they get, you know, special food, you know, and if that means, you know, special for them is maybe it's, you know, instead of a regular pizza, you know, we, we make

Kathy might make them a sourdough pizza at home with, you know, it's still not great food in terms of, you know, it's still wheat, but at least it's fermented. It's a little bit better. You know, we only use, you know, we obviously it doesn't have seed oils or anything. So it's arguably better, not necessarily great. But you know, those few cases where we do that, you know, it's not gonna derail anyone's health because of what we do on a daily basis, you know, all of us are relatively robust.

and we can handle the occasional food that's not ideal. You know, same as, you know, we have regular pizza, well sourdough pizza for the most part once every two months or so. It's not gonna kill me, it's not gonna do anything in long time. Maybe the next day I might not, I might feel 90% instead of 100, I can live with that. So it's not about being strict all the time, but it's about making intentional choices, you know? And that's what we try to teach our kids. The same goes with...

with the macronutrients. We are not strict about, we're not on a keto diet or anything, but we make every meal focused on protein intake. Protein is the most important macronutrient as far as I'm concerned. And then energy can then come from fat or it can come from carbohydrates. There the kids have more or less the choice. We eat pretty high fat, but they also have plenty of carbs and that's fine.

Michael Kummer (23:37.882)
One thing that's another very important thing that really goes to it for adults and kids as well, but we feed them when they are hungry. And not when it's, you know, a set meal time. And we've noticed a huge difference in how they eat and their cravings in particular, when they only eat when they're hungry and when they don't eat when they are not, you know. Because if you think about it, you know, how do you know when you're full, if you weren't hungry?

to begin with before a meal. Very difficult then to figure out how much food you should be eating. So that was nutrition. Certainly one of the stickiest points. Next one is exercise. Kids are naturally active, physically active. If you just let them play, they don't usually choose to sit on the couch or sit on a chair all day like adults do maybe because of a job or what have you.

they are naturally active and the best thing you can do is not be in their way and let them be active. You know and that doesn't mean you have to sign them up for a thousand different activities. You know just let them be outside in nature is usually enough. They don't you know need any formal sport. I mean it doesn't hurt you know to be part of a team or whatever. But if they play you know outside you know with in our case you know with the chickens or with the rabbits or what have you.

that's good enough, you know, it's physically active, it all it matters, it doesn't really matter, you know, what the type of activity naturally is. And we have noticed in particular, if you want to find like, well, you know, what, what is it that I can do that's not, you know, a formal sport or whatever? We've noticed that all kids are naturally attracted to water, you know, and that might could be, you know, a garden hose, it could be a river or a stream, any body of water, any type of water, and they are, you know,

they go nuts with it, they like that, you know, they like getting wet and playing in water, etc. So whenever we have a chance, you know, we go to a stream, we let them, you know, play in a river or whatever, we let them play with the garden hose, heck, you know, sometimes we just turn on the sprinkler in the backyard and let them run around and have fun, you know, with the dog. And, you know, it doesn't cost you anything or at least not much, I mean, a little bit of water, but that's it. The other day we noticed, you know, we have like this 300 gallon...

Michael Kummer (25:58.938)
stock tank for our geese so they can bathe in and then swim in a little bit. And they started playing in there, you know, in the dirt water at the end of today where the geese pooped in already for a couple of days, but they had a blast just playing with that water, they built like little floats and were playing in there with the geese and it was all good fun. And it's cheap, doesn't cost anything and you know, you don't need to over schedule with a ton of activities.

So that's exercise, but any type of exercise, if you're not in the way of your kids, it's usually all you need to do to allow them to be active. Depending on the age, of course. Sleep is another one that we've noticed even with our 10-year-old, not so much the 8-year-old. He is a solid sleeper. I mean, he is from the get-go. He has never had any issues sleeping. The older one, on the other hand, you know, she seems to be...

falling asleep later than we would like her to fall asleep and then of course you know she needs to sleep longer in the morning and that was a huge issue for a long time while she was still in school because you know during school she had to get up at 6.15 in the morning and that means if we want her to sleep 10, 11 hours whatever it was at the time that she needed

You know, it was just a simple math, you know, or numbers game to calculate back to when she has to fall asleep. So she would get, you know, her hours. But she wasn't necessarily tired at the time, but then she was tired in the morning and she never quite, you know, adjusted. And it was really one of the main reasons, believe it or not, why we decided to take our kids out of school, besides the educational aspect of, you know, not us agreeing with the curriculum and how they, you know,

were taught and what they were taught etc. But it was really the sleep because we said it doesn't make sense to send our kids to bed before the sun is down just so we can get them get them up at six in the morning you know for them to go to school. And so what we did is basically we tried to line up their sleep schedule more with you know the sunlight you know get up when the sun comes out and go to bed when the sun goes down kind of you know.

Michael Kummer (28:17.442)
depending on the time of the year. But during that process, while we made those changes, we realized very dramatically that sun exposure had a dramatic impact on their sleep, specifically on the older one. So what that means is getting them out into sunlight in the morning already, and throughout the day means they would sleep, fall asleep quicker at an earlier time.

and sleep better than if they were playing inside or you know spending their time inside for most of the day. So sun exposure incredibly important and that's nothing new and I talked about this in previous episodes and on the blog already you know sunlight has a direct impact on the circadian rhythm and that applies to kids as well as to adults. So finding time during the day to be outside in the morning you know there is a lot of scientific evidence

that shows that getting the early morning sunlight directly into your eyes and you know the sunset and then you know the harsh UV light during the day has a significant impact on the circadian rhythm so getting the kids out exposed to light you know without wearing sunscreen and wearing sunglasses and all of those things just getting them out into the sun has a dramatic impact on their sleep. And the same goes obviously with physical activity on days where they are very physically active you know they get tired quicker and sleep better

No surprise, it's the same that you know applies to adults as well. You know if I'm If I don't move you know in a day, then I'm I have much more energy built up that I have not used You know probably because I'm still eating the same and I have extra energy and I'm not as sleepy in evening As far as food is concerned, you know, no super high carb fruits before bedtime again same applies to adults as well But carbohydrates are energy a quick

sources of energy, you know, you don't necessarily want to fuel up with a lot of energy right before going to bed. And I've already, you know, mentioned school, I mean, it's not everyone can do it, I understand, but taking them out of school, taking them out of basically a fixed schedule where they have to get up at a certain time in the morning, you know, in most cases for kids it's because of school. But whatever the case might be, you know, letting them sleep

Michael Kummer (30:40.606)
until they wake up and I'm not talking about like you know sleeping in until noon you know because they played video games all night that's not what I mean assuming you know and there is obviously no video games or no tv or anything no electronics in their bedroom to start with you know but assuming they go bad they go to bed at a regular time we try to let them sleep until they wake up naturally because that means they have gotten enough sleep starting with sleep deprivation already at an early age

is a recipe for disaster, for a recipe for poor mental health, for poor physical health and everything that comes with it. So that was sleep, you know, and the sleep of our kids has dramatically improved ever since we go, you know, by the sun, pretty much, you know, and we go to bed when it's dark and we get up when it's light, you know, and obviously, you know, during summer, you know, the sun is out for much longer, so we, you know, still...

they might get up already after sunset or sorry after sunrise but they go to bed when it's dark and we try to stick to that as good as we can. Now in terms of hormesis that might sound you know odd to you because why do we have to worry about you know hormetic stressors with kids but we have noticed that the earlier you allow your kids to expose themselves you know not by you pushing them but by allowing them to get into

quote-unquote stressful situations and by stressful I mean you know not stress about you know social media or what you know the other kids said about their clothing or how they eat or whatever but hormetic stressors like heat exposure cold exposure even fasting you know is a is a very good way of making them more resilient from an early age and so for example you know we encourage him or ask him hey do you want to go into the sauna and they've realized that

you know, when they get like the sniffles or when they feel like not great and they go into the sun or into the sauna, you know, basically exposing them to heat, it makes them feel better, you know. And just the other day, you know, Lucas, I mean, it seems like right now there's something going around again. A lot of people are sick and, you know, Lucas started with a congested nose and a sore throat and I saw him, you know, without a shirt in the sun and he's like, and I came down and he said, you know that, you know, when I don't feel good, I really like the sun and I'm like, you know.

Michael Kummer (33:04.558)
good for you, you know, you're listening to your body and you know what's good for you. And then he went into the sauna and our older one too and they just feel better after it. And so, you know, I'm not going to push them into a cold plunge obviously at that age, but you know, letting them experience, you know, cold temperatures, be it, you know, in winter or be it, you know, when we've been a play the stream and they get in and they get all cold, you know, that's all perfectly fine. They're not going to get sick, they're going to get more resilient and better. And another hormetic stressor that we...

not really intentionally but coincidentally discovered was fasting and that happened because we said you know on certain days you know we're not gonna have a set breakfast time we eat when we feel hungry and so instead of us offering them food you know they get up usually they play and they're busy and you know do their thing so instead of saying hey kids you know come breakfast is ready we just said let's not do anything let's wait until they come to us and

And that we did it a couple of times and that turned into instead of having the kid instead of having breakfast at Like 6 15 in the morning when while they were at school or while they were still in school They sometimes now have breakfast at 10 11 12, you know sometimes, you know, we break our fast Kathy and I at noon and Like Isabella have you eaten it? No, but I'm now kind of feel hungry too. So I'll eat with you You know and she it

not had any food until the dinner the day before. It's not because we make them fast or we push them to not eat, we just allow them to not eat when they are not hungry and then start eating when they actually feel hungry. And you'll be surprised, you know, it's perfectly normal for humans to not eat for 16 hours or 14 hours if you don't feel hungry. There's nothing wrong with that and it's a great hormetic stressor, I think, that makes them more resilient and more metabolically flexible. In terms of stress management,

That's a challenging one, that's a very important one at the same time, because we've noticed that kids at various ages are already exposed to chronic stress. And that should not be the case. The only thing kids should have to worry about is play, you know, and learn through playing, discovering stuff, learning things, but not be stressed with things that we put on their plate. And one of the main things that we've seen...

Michael Kummer (35:30.386)
around us but also in our family was scheduling. You know and that starts with school. You know if they go to school all day and they come back and then I have after school activities or that I have to do homework. You know it's already starts at such an early age where I'm like it's absolutely ridiculous that they have to worry about schedules and to-dos and meetings and all kind of things. It's ridiculous you know and it induces stress and it's not induces.

or not conducive to optimal mental and physical health. You know, and you wanna protect them from that stress for as long as you can, because at some point, they're gonna be exposed to that if they want to or not, if they continue living in our modern world. And I think, you know, it's probably gonna get even worse for future generations than it has been for us, if history is any indication. And so we try to intentionally not over schedule them. And there was one recent example where, you know, our daughter,

loves gymnastics and she did it for a while she was fairly good, she was really good and so she kept advancing you know and they have like different levels and the higher you get up the more you train obviously the more competitions you have etc and because you know during school year most kids go to school you know they had most of those practices in the evening and so when she was when she was about to advance to the next level

You know, she would come back from practice at like 8.30 at night. You know, that's when Cathy and I go to bed, you know, and I'm like, we're not going to do this. We're not going to negatively impact her sleep schedule because of a sport that is, you know, it's optional. It's great that she likes it. It's a great sport, you know, per se, you know, gymnastics. I'm nothing against it. But it's not more important than sleep. And it's certainly not...

important enough to over schedule her with, you know, now it's X times a week, you know, practice and then competitions and then you have to be there and you have to do this. I'm like, no, not at 10 years, at 9 years, absolutely not. And so, you know, we are very careful with scheduling things for them. If they want to do a sport, of course we support it, but then we do, you know, one thing a week. We're not going to do this and this and this and this. And then they have zero free time where they

Michael Kummer (37:52.426)
you know, want to explore and do the things that they really want to do and not the things that, you know, we want them to do. And, you know, kids learn through play. That's, you know, first and foremost, and I strongly believe that if you just let them play and let them be, let them do their thing, they learn, they advance. And there is no need to over schedule them, you know, and so that's why that was another reason why we decided to homeschool or really unschool, you know, we don't have a curriculum, we don't follow.

We don't have a schedule, you know, we just, they learn through playing and they do. If you watch them, you know, they learn and our kids are significantly smarter and more advanced than Cathy and I ever were. So if they, you know, seeing what we are seeing, you know, we see no need to have any fixed schedule or whatever and I also don't believe in over-scheduling your kids to keep them out of trouble, you know, keeping them so busy that they don't have time to get in trouble. I think getting in trouble is a product of the wrong environment.

and wrong values and wrong leadership as parents and not necessarily because they have nothing better to do. So here are some of the, I guess, to wrap the whole episode up, a couple of tips and tricks that have worked for us and maybe some of the mistakes that we've made that we should be doing differently. And the first one, that's actually one of the favorites of my wife is to remember that you are, or we are as adults, the frontal lobe of our kids because the brain hasn't developed yet.

That, you know, obviously is a little bit age-dependent, but even, you know, someone who is in the early 20s or, you know, late teens or whatever, their brain hasn't fully matured yet. And especially in our case with an 8 and a 10-year-old, you know, we are their frontal lobe. Their logical reasoning is not the same as ours, and they are much more emotional, and sometimes I have, you know, trouble connecting the emotional side with the logical side to have, you know, proper reasoning.

I mean, I still have those issues because I'm mostly logically not so much emotional. And so that's something, you know, we should not forget whenever there is, you know, whenever there is issues, whenever we say, well, you know, we go to a birthday party and they start crying because they cannot have the cake, you know, for them it, you know, they don't know what we know. And so we have to take that into account and approach it from an emotional perspective, first and foremost, before we can start reasoning with them logically.

Michael Kummer (40:17.526)
The other thing is, I think that's one of the most important things, is to provide an environment that fosters freedom on the one hand and their well-being on the other hand. Meaning that, you know, I don't want to, you know, tell them exactly what they have to and can eat every single day, but I want to provide them with an environment where they can choose and whatever their choice is, it's a good choice, you know. And, but that means, you know, controlling their environment. And I'm not saying this in the sense of...

You know, you don't have to be like North Korea where everything, you know, they can and cannot do and can say and cannot say is predetermined and controlled by someone like by us, by the parents. But by providing them with an environment where it's much, it's difficult to make poor choices, you know, and if they get used to making proper choices while still exercising their freedom, I think you have a recipe for less friction than otherwise. And

And friction is really, I think, the main thing, you know, when nobody wants to argue with their kids every single day. And so making it as frictionless as possible. And that, you know, sometimes that might mean, you know, hard choices. Like, for example, you know, if it turns out that there is a constant issue about, you know, watching TV, you know, then I'm radical enough to remove the TV. If there is no TV, there is no discussion, you know, whether or not they can watch and what they can watch and when they can watch and for how long.

It's very simple, no TV and the problem is solved. Of course, you need to figure out how far you wanna get and how much argument you can sustain without going insane to keep everything moving. I mean, in our case, we have a TV, the TV is not a big issue fortunately, but we also have iPads that the kids use to do math and to do certain things that are educational.

But of course, when you offer an iPad, when there is an iPad to be used, then you might get into an argument about why they cannot, you know, why screen time is limited despite all the educational stuff. And so you need to figure out for yourself how much you want to put up with and if it would just be easier to remove the problem or the source of the problem altogether. And then every so often, you know, we...

Michael Kummer (42:39.606)
we have discussions as a family where we kind of rehash why we do what we do. And the older the kids get, the more they understand. Like our older one, she now, when she goes somewhere, she reads the nutrition label, she turns the product around. And the other day she said, look at how many ingredients. And many of those, I don't even know what they mean. So that must be crap food, right daddy? And I'm like, that's the spirit. She is not old enough to understand what we look for and why that is. And.

Our eight-year-old he is more like you know all over the place he doesn't care you know he's more like he is more easier to influence by us. But the older they get the more they make those decisions and the more the better the foundation you set up the better decisions they will make. And then last but not least and that's an important one and we've noticed this over and over again that don't assume your kids will follow your lead.

even if you're doing all the right things and aren't influenced by others, be it schools, clubs, TV or even books. You know, and I'm saying this because, you know, I run around without a shirt a lot during the day, sometimes even without pants, you know. Our kids are not like that, you know. It was, it took some serious effort to encourage them to go outside and take their shirt off, you know, to expose their naked skin to sunlight.

I'm not saying running around completely naked, but taking off your shirt, taking off your shoes, that was another thing where I'm like, I'm barefoot all the time, but our kids not. And then the other day we noticed our daughter rolling her eyes when Cathy said something. And I'm like, where do you have eye rolling from? Because we don't roll our eyes. And turned out it was from a TV show

Apparently, you know, those kids or teenagers were rolling eyes and she picked it up from there. And then another occasion, we thought, okay, it's TV, you know, we all know TV, you don't learn anything good from TV, you know, we can limit that, etc. But then the other day, there was something, and I don't remember exactly what the behavior was, but it was learned, they learned it from reading, from a book, you know, so even...

Michael Kummer (44:59.722)
you know, books that we generally encourage, not generally, we encourage them to read as much as possible. You know, they read a lot, they have a lot of books, we go to the library a lot, but even in books, you kind of want to be careful and shape, you know, what they get exposed to and try to avoid things that you don't want them to be exposed to, you know, and very often, you're not the coolest.

person in their environment. It might be friends, it might be someone else, it might be a TV character or a character in the book. It doesn't really matter. But don't assume that just because you do the right thing that your kids will follow suit. That's not often the case or not always the case. Hopefully it is often the case but not always. And so that's also another important thing to keep in mind. You know, obviously talk the talk, walk the walk, but control the environment and make sure that there is no external influence that goes counter of what you're trying to teach.

And with that we're gonna wrap it up. I hope you there were some things in there that you could learn from that you could apply to your own you know family to your own family setting to kind of improve the way you eat, the way you sleep, the way you manage stress, the way you exercise without causing a lot of friction. Because the more frictionless it is, the more the more longevity

your strategy will have and the more the better is for everyone. At the end of the day you know doing something that everyone hates is not sustainable you're not going to be doing it for long so you need to find a way to make it sustainable to make it fun to make it joyful to make to have everyone embrace what you're doing and so you can not only improve your health but also stay mentally sane and happy at the end of the day because that's what really matters you know you want to be happy you want to be joyful.

And with that we're gonna wrap it up. If you like this episode, like it, share it, follow, subscribe, I appreciate it. Until the next one.